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Old 02-02-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: The Wild Wild West
54 posts, read 72,150 times
Reputation: 31

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
It says that market prices have gone down, but if wealth is a finite asset, that loss of wealth must go somewhere.. Where did it go?
We're expressing value in units of exchange.
So value is relative.
(Just like 'rich' and 'poor' in America.)
If this house can be exchanged for more of other goods, then it takes more of other goods to buy the house.
The relative value of other goods has fallen.

Similarly, whoever sold the house at a higher price gained.
Whoever sells at a lower price loses.
Buy low, sell high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Who's discussing happiness? We're discussing facts.
And that is also the real problem.
Not 'income inequality' or any of that nonsense.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:13 AM
 
3,398 posts, read 5,085,461 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Poor people are poor, and remain that way, because a rich person refuses to pay them a living wage. Period. Spin it any way you like it is the essence of the paradigm. There are also other extrinsics such as poor people (relatively) being tasked with maintaining the essential infrastructure of the country while richer people are given exemptions from virtually any responsibility for the day to day running of the country. What a fail thread.

H
What if their job performance isn't worth a living wage?
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:18 AM
 
3,398 posts, read 5,085,461 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
You think McDonald's couldn't pay $30/hr and not have to charge $19 for a Big Mac? Oh boy, the "if we pay workers more we have to pass the costs on to the consumer" argument again. Wouldn't it be awesome if corporations held their executives and their shareholders to reasonable levels of compensation and dividends? Maybe it would take them 5x as long to become billionaires but they would, eventually, and in the meantime everyone else could at least live a little better.

Hmmmmm

H
How is what a burger flipper does worth 30 dollars an hour? People get paid what the job is worth. Why is that so hard to understand?
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:24 AM
 
3,398 posts, read 5,085,461 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Ford became a multi billionaire by paying his employees more than the going rate, thus increasing their ability to obtain wealth. How does this enter into your equation?

Furthermore, Microsoft normally paid for those companies with stock, those company owners became fabulously wealthy, far greater than they would have been had they not sold out. Your list actually disputes your own argument.
Good argument, but from what I understand, Ford paid more as an incentive, but also expected more from the people he hired. In other words, to work there you had to be worth what he was paying. If you weren't there was no shortage on people that wanted your job.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:30 AM
 
3,398 posts, read 5,085,461 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Presently it goes into cash holdings offshore

Wrong.. Say you have a town of 100 people, 1 owns a factory, the other 99 work for that factory.

1 rich person, but the other 99 people arent poor.

They could be, it all depends on how ruthless the rich guy wants to be. What if he only employs 45 people in town and sources the rest from a neighboring town with a much, much lower COL? What if he employs none of the people in town and sources all his labor from a poor town nearby? What if he flies in really, really poor people from a poor country far away? Its all up to him.

H
What is stopping the 99 people from starting their own business, commuting or leaving to work else where? Nothing. No one is a slave to this one factory owner.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:33 AM
 
3,398 posts, read 5,085,461 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn2390 View Post
Once again, divide every dime in the USA equally so everyone in the country has exactly the same amount of money. In a few short years, all the former rich people will be rich again, and all the former poor people will be poor again.
If you're too lazy to get off your dead butt and go out and make money, it's your own fault. Winners will always remain winners, the losers will continue to cry about how unfair the world is treating them...
No, when the rich see that this is what is coming, they will move to a better country to keep their wealth and the US will just be poorer from then on.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:38 AM
 
20,576 posts, read 19,235,268 times
Reputation: 8174
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheaties View Post
The market does that. As per your definition.
If you prefer, prices are deflated now.
In that case, those who buy cheap now will gain in the future.
Those who sell now are the losers.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-cont...rt-updated.png
When I see this chart, I tend to see inflated prices.
But your reference point is okay too.

The market? Real estate is not typically paid for in cash which means its based on credit. Since credit standards are set by what is essentially a cartel, there is no purely "market" condition on large purchases based on credit. Demand is market based, but effective demand is heavily manipulated by the cost of credit. Comparing that to full equity, widget economy is nothing but flawed.


Cheap credit stimulates effective demand even beyond its real utility which is what we call ponzi schemes. That is why housing was "overvalued" and may indeed become "undervalued" because there is this distortion to a purely commodity and equity based exchange follow a liquid barter model.

Thus speaking of value in the housing market in a distorted value system of heavily manipulated credit is a bit specious.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:39 AM
 
20,576 posts, read 19,235,268 times
Reputation: 8174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocontengencies View Post
Good argument, but from what I understand, Ford paid more as an incentive, but also expected more from the people he hired. In other words, to work there you had to be worth what he was paying. If you weren't there was no shortage on people that wanted your job.

That's a good argument for monopoly pricing power? Lets hear it. Can't wait.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:41 AM
 
3,398 posts, read 5,085,461 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovethecommunity View Post
It doesn't? How many poor people do you know?

I doubt any......

We all aren't born with money. People actually work hard and still don't make enough.
I think I know enough lower income people to tell you that alphamale is right when he says it doesn't take much to feed a family. That is true if you do it right. If you exclude McDonalds and eating out, buy economically, and actually cook your own meals and don't buy premade, it is more than possible. I know because I have been low income before and done it. And I did it without food stamps or food banks, free lunches and any of that. Those that I know that claim to be struggling don't want to do this. It is about choices.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:47 AM
 
3,398 posts, read 5,085,461 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
That's a good argument for monopoly pricing power? Lets hear it. Can't wait.
Can't wait to hear what, the truth? No employer wants to pay someone that isn't worth the time. It isn't a charity it is a business. You may not like it, but it is true.
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