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BULL! Any time you have a way to make a legally binding wager on what I've said you just let me know. I know for a FACT manufacturers throw $$$ at suits that have little merit to avoid court as it's still cheaper than attorney fees/court costs even, when youn win. The fact you dispute it tells me you know very little about the business and how it's run. As I've said, anytime you can put up $$$ in a legally binding wager you just let me know, I'll be happy to take our money.
Try learning some facts. Years ago there was a lawsuit against GM over some asinine Smokey and the Bandit commercial they ran. Some yahoo was drunk, smoking dope, and ran a Firebird into a pole killing himself and a passenger, GM was sued by the estate under the premise that the ad gave the driver the idea he could drive like the ad showed with no consequences. GM paid a well over $100,000 settlement to avoid going to court. You really have NO CLUE how often a company will throw $1,000-3,000 at people to close a complaint and avoid possible lemon law action. I do, I know someone who does the throwing. Any time you care to make it $$$ worth our while just holler, I'll introduce you.
If that's that dog gone case, I'd have guessed you might have cited an example that's a little more recent this 30+ year old case. Surely there was one yesterday ... last week at least, or even last month, last year maybe? Since they are so frequent and common.
But what ever you say ... we're just supposed to agree with you and your claims. And no, I'm not considering a manufacturer choosing to fix a problem by replacing prematurely worn out tires, or a transmission failure after a warranty has expired as an out-of-court settlement.
There are many "customer relations" actions that are routinely done that have nothing to do with settling legal suits filed and scheduled.
Such events make the news ... just like that one ... so show us all of the many examples that are routinely reported all of the time?
So, 42 is significantly lower than 50 (differential of 8mpg) while the the 30 mpg achieved is rather inconsequential to the 42 mpg rating ? (a differential of 12mpg)
Wow. Just wow.
One more time, since you don't get to do it... your driving style/conditions dictate your real world gas mileage. Why else do you think a car may be rated at 20 mpg in city while 30 mpg on highway? That is a whopping 50% differential and yet the sky doesn't fall.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,389,283 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
If that's that dog gone case, I'd have guessed you might have cited an example that's a little more recent this 30+ year old case. Surely there was one yesterday ... last week at least, or even last month, last year maybe? Since they are so frequent and common.
But what ever you say ... we're just supposed to agree with you and your claims. And no, I'm not considering a manufacturer choosing to fix a problem by replacing prematurely worn out tires, or a transmission failure after a warranty has expired as an out-of-court settlement.
There are many "customer relations" actions that are routinely done that have nothing to do with settling legal suits filed and scheduled.
Such events make the news ... just like that one ... so show us all of the many examples that are routinely reported all of the time?
Hey, you're telling me things I KNOW to be true aren't. What I KNOW from that is YOU know very little about the industry you claim to know. Your so called CR actions are often made to ward off the filing of suits which is NO different than throwing $$$ at them to settle. In addition, many cases filed in small claims venues are settled by arbitration before actually going to trial, they're settled by $$$ and I stand 100% behind what I've said. If you choose to dispute the truth I don't really give a rat's ass.
Some companies absolutely will settle, others will fight tooth and nail. You touch on a number of good points and in some ways you are both right.
A number of out of court settlements are never in the news because a suit is never actually filed. A good lawyer will know in some cases that by NOT filing but just contacting the company that they may settle to maintain the discretion and prevent copycat suits etc.
There are just lots of shades of grey on this topic and it will vary greatly depending upon what type of suit is involved. ie) Shareholder D&O suit, workers comp, sex harassment, product liability and many many more.
That's correct ... and lots of "customer relations" type benefits are doled out too, but generally not "cash type" settlements other than product refunds and what not.
Actual liability cases and out-of-court settlements (which is the kind of case we're talking about here) are quite rare.
Corporations will go to insane ends to avoid admitting liability, either overt or insinuated. I remember Chrysler having major safety issues with their Caravan and it's single point back hatch mechanism, with the tailgate flying open in a rear end collision. And it certainly was a flaw that Ford capitalized on with their three point secured latch system. And Chrysler lost market share over that .. but for several years, they maintained the same weak single point system design, because a redesign would have tacitly implied an acknowledgment of the flaw, along with the subsequent liability implications. So they refused to make a safer system in order to avoid any perception of admitting there was ever a safety flaw ... which was their steadfast position that no safety issue existed.
Once upon a time, there was a brand of sneakers called P.F. Flyers. Their commercials claimed that they'd let you "run faster and jump higher." A woman in the Philadelphia area bought a pair for her son (who happened to be athletically challenged) and guess what? The sneakers didn't help him at all. So she sued the company, insisting that they stop making false claims. She won her case, and P.F. Flyers soon disappeared from shelves all across the country.
Honda is no different. Everyone should initiate lawsuits against false claims. Eventually, the manufacturers would discover a heretofore unknown concept called "truth."
Agreed. Good for this woman for taking on Honda, and winning.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,389,283 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour
Agreed. Good for this woman for taking on Honda, and winning.
Really? Have you actually found something factual about what HONDA did wrong? Found a HONDA run ad promising 50MPG? There's certainly nothing in the article cited in the OP.
Really? Have you actually found something factual about what HONDA did wrong? Found a HONDA run ad promising 50MPG? There's certainly nothing in the article cited in the OP.
I have ... and you could have to, with very little effort .. such as reading the woman's complaint!! Then you could have verified that her complaints are exactly the same as many other Honda Hybrid owners are also experiencing, which seems to suggest a car problem and not a whiny woman issue.
Here's the Scoop:
She had repeatedly had Honda Certified technicians address terrible gas mileage, sluggish performance, failing auto-stop and rough idle ... and battery not holding a charge, with no satisfactory results ... but an actual worsening of the problem of mileage as they attempted to fix these issues. What made it worse? An (irremovable) software update designed to extend the battery life in response to prematurely failing batteries in those vehicles. Even the Honda Techs told her that the update as designed would reduce effective MPG, obviously in lessening the participation in the battery that is designed to improve gas mileage by providing alternative power train assistance.
Finally, after being told that nothing more could be done, she tried to make contact with Honda Corporate, but they did not respond until after she finally had enough of this BS, and filed a law suit. Honda tried to postpone the hearing, claiming their test consultant for evaluating the vehicle wouldn't be available until "next year", which she flatly rejected and who could blame her??
So, the gist of this is, a consumer goes out and buys a hybrid automobile that incorporates a battery assisted power train design for great fuel economy OBVIOUSLY for that fuel economy that particular vehicle offers. Not for it's luxury .. not for it's sexy appearance .. not for it's high performance ... but for fuel economy as advertised. Low and behold, that economy falls well short of it's claims ... some 30% of it's EPA estimates (which is beyond a reasonable +/- margin of error) and 40% less than is claimed to have been promised by the dealer.
In failing to fix the problems with the failing battery ... sluggish response .. the failing auto-stop (assuming this is a switch from gas to battery) rough idle, and horrible fuel economy (no doubt due to the failure of the battery/gas power implementation) Honda installs a software patch that takes some of the load off the battery to improve it's lifespan and charging issues, while that in turn makes the fuel economy decrease further, by decreasing the battery's participation in powering the vehicle, which is the whole bloody purpose of the battery to provide non-gasoline power, and hence, extending miles per gallon!
Now if you have to ask again, what Honda did wrong ... I'm afraid you are beyond hope of understanding this rather straight forward issue.
PS: JEEEESH
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 02-02-2012 at 03:08 PM..
I have ... and you could have to, with very little effort .. such as reading the woman's complaint!! Then you could have verified that her complaints are exactly the same as many other Honda Hybrid owners are also experiencing, which seems to suggest a car problem and not a whiny woman issue.
Why are people getting 40 mpg or better from their cars (including my limited experience with it)?
Since none of the hybrids live up to their government mandated and ginned up claims,will owners of GM Volts follow suit? (as a taxpayer they'd be suing themselves)
I was listening to a radio show on NPR a week or more ago, and the show was all about cars. This was a show where 95% of the callers are libs. Caller after caller, they were complaining about gas mileage, and using the cars they used to drive as examples of some plot by the car manufacturers to lower the MPG of today's cars.
The plot seemed to be that during the Clinton years cars got 40-50 MPG and then during the Bush admin they only got 25-35 MPG. the answer was simple, but the guest was a lib also, so he was dancing around the reasons why the cars of today get worse mileage then the cars of the 1990s.
finally he had to admit that the reason was simple, the federal government added more and more mandates and regulations for emissions and safety, so that a Geo Metro, that could get 50 MPG, would be illegal to manufacture and sell in today's market.
Top Ten High MPG Cars – 1994 Model Year:
Geo Metro – XFi 3-cyl., 1.0 liter – MPG: 53 city / 58 highway
Hey, you're telling me things I KNOW to be true aren't. What I KNOW from that is YOU know very little about the industry you claim to know. Your so called CR actions are often made to ward off the filing of suits which is NO different than throwing $$$ at them to settle. In addition, many cases filed in small claims venues are settled by arbitration before actually going to trial, they're settled by $$$ and I stand 100% behind what I've said. If you choose to dispute the truth I don't really give a rat's ass.
Agreeing to fix issues with a product in addressing customer complaints is a common thing that happens every day. Providing refunds and allowing returns happens every day. These things do not constitute "out-of-court" settlements.
And I don't care if you have such difficulty being wrong that you'd reach so far into left field to prove you are right.
If it's that damned important .. fine ... you're right ..happens every day. Satisfied?
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