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Three dollars are spent in medicare for every dollar taken in. Social security has over $7 trillion in unfunded liabilities. I would call that insolvent.
I am not a conservative, so don't make the claim that it is OK for liberals to waste money because conservatives do. If there isn't money for a program to be self-sustaining, we need to cut it, regardless of who it helps. The fact that liberals don't understand that is exactly what I am talking about.
Why do we have two carrier task forces, soon to be three, guarding the Strait of Hormuz? We get only about 12% of our oil travels thru that route, why is it America's job to guard oil that is mostly destine for China and Indochina?
Since when has guarding international oil commerce become our navy's job in the world?
As a Liberal, I ask when have you read that I propose the government regulate roughly half of the populations' decisions as to what they can do with or to their own bodies even if this negates the basic concept of freedom of the individual to decide what is good for them?
I have never suggested that the government regulate access to birth control medicines or devices. I also have never believed the government should force anyone to either carry or terminate a pregnancy. That decision is the individual's alone. Not being able to control your own body is one definition of slavery.
I, as a Liberal, would never force a person to serve in any military force. Even though I am a Vietnam veteran I would never force someone to fight for my country or government. That is a basic infringement on an individual right to control their own fate.
I, as a Liberal, am a vocal supporter of the individual liberty to be at all times armed with the primary responsibility of protecting your family, friends, total strangers and yourself, from violent assault. I also require that the shooter be completely responsible for whatever damage the bullet does.
I, as a Liberal, believe that Free Market Capitalism is the most remarkable economic system ever created. I also believe it is subject to corruption and negation by businessmen for their own profit. Thus I believe this the primary place for government intervention in the business system. Markets can be trusted to properly allocate resources, business criminals cannot.
I, as a Liberal, believe society should provide as much opportunity as possible for every child regardless of their parentage, wealth, mental ability or health. I believe supporting this opportunity requires government schools, health care and hospitals and welfare for the few that cannot understand or use an opportunity.
I would like to refer to Historian dude’s post #10. I am some part of all forms of Liberal.
I am most definitely not:
“Vile, morally corrupt, unpatriotic, cowardly, shallow, zero foresight, economically redundant, fiscally irresponsible, socially ignorant, non-existent work ethic,…” or “ and the reason why America is a Nanny Welfare State whose best days are behind it.” AeroguyDC Post #4
You are decribing the type of freedom conservatives believe in. Plenty of liberals spout the same rhetoric, that they value freedom of speech, freedom of association, and freedom of self determination, but all of these are completely at odds with the current liberals in the Democratic Party.
Are you in favor of the American people being forced to buy health insurance, written to the standards of federal bureaucrats, as a function of citizenship?? Liberals claim to believe in our rights and freedoms, and then agree with big government when they take them away, and impose their will on unwilling citizenry.
Do you even see a problem with the president making it the law of the land that employers or insurance companies must give away free products and services, such as birth control and abortion pills?
Why do we have two carrier task forces, soon to be three, guarding the Strait of Hormuz? We get only about 12% of our oil travels thru that route, why is it America's job to guard oil that is mostly destine for China and Indochina?
Since when has guarding international oil commerce become our navy's job in the world?
we should just sit back and do nothing. Let the rest of the world finally get on their high horse and assert themselves. I'm getting sick of the US defending the world, and then being criticized by dysfunctional countries.
You are decribing the type of freedom conservatives believe in. Plenty of liberals spout the same rhetoric, that they value freedom of speech, freedom of association, and freedom of self determination, but all of these are completely at odds with the current liberals in the Democratic Party.
Wrong. These are completely at odd with the straw man that conservatives love to set up and knock down. Given the apparent inability of the right-wing to energize its base with genuine, substantive and constructive debate on the real differences in political philosophy between liberalism and conservatism, they instead have assembled a vast army of unicorns and boogie men to serve the purpose of getting the loyal herd engaged.
Look for example at the fabricated version of President Obama that populates such a large number of threads in this very forum. Anyplace else in the world Obama would be considered a center-right politician. Certainly my friends and family in Europe consider him so, and are baffled by the weird and atavistic accusations of "communism" regularly hurled at him by the American right. These are people who know what real communists are like. They spent the cold war eyeball to eyeball with them, facing each other across the barbed wire and mine fields of the Iron Curtain.
And Obama is not one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812
Are you in favor of the American people being forced to buy health insurance, written to the standards of federal bureaucrats, as a function of citizenship??
Only as a Trojan horse for eventual universal single payer health care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812
Liberals claim to believe in our rights and freedoms, and then agree with big government when they take them away, and impose their will on unwilling citizenry.
The tension between individual freedom and the role of government has never been an exclusive franchise of the left. The difference seems to be that the left wing understands morality to be economic and political, while the right understands morality to be sexual and religious. Neither side has ever been loath to use the coercive organs of government to push their respective moral world views.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812
Do you even see a problem with the president making it the law of the land that employers or insurance companies must give away free products and services, such as birth control and abortion pills?
Nothing is free. Certainly insurance and insurance coverages are not.
But I absolutely support more resources be directed towards issues of women's health, yes.
Conservative idea: We can't fix it and shouldn't (because it is better dead than alive).
Liberal Idea: We need to fix it.
It doesn't matter what you claim to be. Leave that at home.
I am libertarian. Please understand the difference between that and conservative.
Liberals don't want to 'fix' social security or medicare. They want to continue programs that add less value than a privatized counterpart. Liberals aren't attempting to fix the issues with those two systems, they are ignoring them. Libertarians, on the other hand, realize the social dangers and economic inefficiencies of such programs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27
Why do we have two carrier task forces, soon to be three, guarding the Strait of Hormuz? We get only about 12% of our oil travels thru that route, why is it America's job to guard oil that is mostly destine for China and Indochina?
Since when has guarding international oil commerce become our navy's job in the world?
I have always fully supported dramatic cuts to military. If it were up to me, I would dramatically cut funding to all military spending as well as all social welfare programs. What exactly does this have to do with what I said?
with all due respect buzzards, you seem to have the attitude of "conservatives waste money, so it is OK for liberals to waste money too!" What an awful way to think.
I am not in favor of citizens being forced to buy health insurance from a privately owned company. Instead I believe every citizen should receive whatever health care they need as part of a Universal health CARE system. That system would be funded as part of the Federal Income Tax.
Medical Education would be available for free to any citizen that agrees to work in the federally owned facilities for a set length of time. These employees would be paid adequate salaries depending on their jobs. The system would be managed, hospitals and insurance, by members of the Federal Executive staff.
There would be no or very little private sector involvement in health care. At most the private sector could provide some non essential services like elective cosmetic surgery and similar frills. There would not be any need for private sector insurance companies to be involved. The existing insurance companies could find something else to insure like automobiles or Attorney Liability.
Providing health care to all at a lower cost to the economy by replacing the outrageously expensive existing system is my Liberal solution to a societal problem. Everyone benefits except the owners and executives of the existing companies. Their unsustainable compensation and profits are a small sacrifice for the greater good.
I am libertarian. Please understand the difference between that and conservative.
Why?
Quote:
Liberals don't want to 'fix' social security or medicare. They want to continue programs that add less value than a privatized counterpart. Liberals aren't attempting to fix the issues with those two systems, they are ignoring them. Libertarians, on the other hand, realize the social dangers and economic inefficiencies of such programs.
As I said...
Conservatives: It is better dead than alive (listen to me, and let me worry about it)
Liberals: It needs to be there. We can fix that.
A friend of mine said something to the effect of "I don't mean to ask a stupid question, but what is a liberal" (she obviously is not into politics...)
So, I go off on about a 10 minute rant about socially liberal, fiscally liberal, government involvement, taxation, entitlements, unions, etc. etc.
I told her that most people fall somewhere inbetween liberal and conservative and it just depends on how strongly we feel about a particular topic that determines where we fall and ultimately vote.
I said that "in a nutshell, liberals believe the government is responsible for taking care of the poeple, creating jobs, creating fairness, providing a social safety net, etc all by generating revenue in the form of taxes while conservatives believe that each individual is responsible for their own well being, success, failure, etc and they don't rely on the government to provide for them"
Accurate?
The way the word has been used this is the common understanding, though it needs further breakdown in order to be accurate. You describe modern liberalism mixed with Progressivism. It is necessary to understand the difference between classical liberalism and modern liberalism as it relates to Progressivism. The two are not even close to having the same platform or goals, in fact, they are polar opposites.
Liberals care about the poor. Conservatives care about the rich. Thats all you needed to say.
More innacurate hyperbole from the far left. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!
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