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Old 02-14-2012, 09:23 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,920,135 times
Reputation: 7313

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Well, desertdetroiter, we will never have the massive manufacturing employment again, as quite frankly, even when we get stuff, robots can do a tremendous percentage of functions once done solely by people. So we could wait for Wal Mart to employ 150 million-is that your suggestion (sar)? Oops, RFID will wipe out most cashier jobs nationally within a few years.

Your moniker includes the poster child for city abandoned by manufacturing : Detroit.
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,260,642 times
Reputation: 27718
And what's funnier is that engineering jobs were the first to be offshored back in the mid 90's.
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:59 PM
 
Location: NC
1,956 posts, read 1,806,754 times
Reputation: 898
You can blame BIG gubbermint for our woes.
  • The government meddling in education via policies like NCLB ensures that our public school system churns out indoctrinated dunderheads who can hardly read or write, let alone learn math and science, let alone find and hold a good paying job.
  • The government is in cahoots with the colleges where the colleges know that whatever tuition increase they do, the government will match the amount with easy loans, thus ensuring that there is no incentive to bring tuition costs down. Every year, the debt load of the students increase from the previous year, with it now well over $1 Trillion. There is no way the students will be able to pay back all of this, so this will ultimately fall on the taxpayer.

    This is a good documentary which gives some great insight into this:


    THE COLLEGE CONSPIRACY - YouTube
  • Onerous regulations, byzantine laws, and bloated union wages ensure that no business can operate profitably in US soil against their foreign competitors who can do the same work for much less, and sell it back to the US consumer who purchases it with borrowed money. Businesses are in this for a profit, and if they cannot make a profit, they will move to where they can make a profit and where they will be welcomed with open arms. Make it profitable for the businesses here and they will come back.
  • Excessive taxation on individuals means that our paycheck lasts even less longer.

I also place blame on the individuals who fantasize about getting a six-figure salary after getting useless degrees like Music, Theater, International Studies, Fashion Design etc and then blaming the college for "duping" them and for the government for not providing them with a job. If you must take easy money for your education, at least study something which will make you marketable.

The value of a degree has also been blown way out of proportion, causing every Tom, Dick and Harry to go to college, regardless of their intellectual capabilities. When everyone has the same thing, that thing is no longer valuable. The students with low IQ should skip college and instead go into vocational training on specific marketable trades - electrician, plumber, car mechanic etc.

The high-paying jobs are always available, but the people are not skilled enough to fill them. Eventually those jobs too will go overseas.

If you want this country to return to its glory days and stand up to competition, get the government out of the way. Let the market work on demand and supply, with the first step being the reduction of the tuition costs. Everything else will automatically fall into place one after the other.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia Area
1,720 posts, read 1,311,501 times
Reputation: 1353
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
I wasn't questioning whether tuition has gone up, I was questioning your assertion that a job that paid 30k in 1982 still pays 30k today, and requires a 100k college degree. I find that claim ridiculous, and I suspect you do too since instead of giving an example to support your claim you've gone off with a wall of links about tuition costs.

Let's review, you said:

A job that paid 30K a year 30 years ago probably still pays 30K a year today although that same job now requires a $100K+ bachelor's degree

Please support this claim, noting that I didn't directly address only tuition costs. Which job? Thanks.
Here's one example:
Originally Posted by Boss
Its funny that the Furn. and mill jobs that went away are slowly comming back. They are being offered at a pay rate of $9-$10 rising to $13. Thousands of people reply to these jobs. Even in NC you cannot live on $400 a week. Families will still be able to keep there EBT. It reminds me of the early 1930'S

Sad. I made $9 an hour during the Summer break in the mid 1980s running telephone lines in office buildings. It was a horrible low paying job then. You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents. That same job today would be need to pay $18.50 per hour. If you have no perspective on how things suck..you'll settle for anything. The USA will look like these ghettos in Brazil before people wake up to this right wing propaganda they've been spoon fed for 30 years.

From: http://www.city-data.com/forum/21049746-post9.html

Here's another:
During college I worked part time at a warehouse. One of my co workers was a Guyanese who came into the US illegally in '77 or '78 (he later received amnesty under Reagan). He used to tell me how his first job, as an illegal, paid $10.50/hour. In 2006, after he was laid off from a warehouse making 33/hour, we were working for $12/hr. $10.50 in '78 or 12 in 2006. Inflation much?
From: http://www.city-data.com/forum/19747215-post241.html

You can learn all about wage deflation and Inflation right here:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/22939672-post1.html
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:20 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,920,135 times
Reputation: 7313
Manual labor,we have all known for decades, would suffer from deflation. We need to move past that stuff. When I see a 50 something doing a minimum wage plus 50 cent job and doing it for years before the recession, a job that 30 years ago would be done by a acne-filled 17 year old or a retiree, I do not focus on how they are getting by now. I focus on where were they for decades on end, when they should have been gaining skills and acquiring education, to get past their first high school quality job. We need to make sure the next generation does not repeat their mistakes.

Some no doubt enjoy those jobs, but if they do, they need to accept one of two tradeoffs, (1) A very menial lifestyle, or (2) Work dozens more hours each week than the typical single low-paying job provides.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:52 PM
 
84 posts, read 57,311 times
Reputation: 53
Whatever happened to the concept of going to college to learn various subject areas? I have friends with liberal arts degrees who are doing quite well. Many of them make six figures in various fields ranging from business, fashion, communications, politics and advertising.

They didn't set out to work in these fields, but they were able to use their KNOWLEDGE to get in the door and ultimately turn a job into a career.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:01 PM
 
84 posts, read 57,311 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenchild08 View Post
What are you talking about? Most engineers make much more than average. Engineering is not hyped up for no damn reason. Do all engineers make a lot of money? No. But you can bet that most do. If you think 80-100K a year for a single income is barely scraping by, try working for $10 an hour (give or take a couple bucks) because poor people do it all across the states including the expensive metros and cities like DC, NYC, SF etc. Only someone with unnecessary lavish spending habits or a bad expensive addiction would not be able to live on 80-100K a year. Yeah, its hard to live on 80-100K a year if you have a bad coke habit, will only drive the newest Benz every year and want to go to Paris every other month. Let's get real. 80K a year is nearly double the median household income in America. You can live anywhere you want on such a salary for god's sake. Even Manhattan in NYC or Pacific Heights in SF. Also, if you make that much money, it is probably very easy to attract a partner who also brings in an income. So there is really no excuse of "boo-hoo, most working engineers don't make that much"; which is flat out false. Most people in America will never make 80K a year in their lifetime. But it just so happens that only a small minority of working people are engineers.

Mining and Mineral Engineering - The 20 Best- and Worst-Paid College Majors - TIME
I don't completely agree. Although 80K a year is a good salary, the problem is, much of your money will go towards taxes if you are single without dependents. Also, factor in the high cost of rent in major metropolitan areas, student loan re-payments, whole foods, utilities, health insurance premiums, car loan payments/gas, hair salon visits, yearly vacations, gym membership, bi-weekly savings contributions, 401k contributions, weekly entertainment (theatre, movies, dinner), bi-weekly monetary charitable donations, Roth IRA contributions and you're left with very little money each month.

Last edited by Michelle234; 02-14-2012 at 11:22 PM..
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:53 AM
 
8,263 posts, read 12,168,456 times
Reputation: 4800
Quote:
Originally Posted by CK78 View Post
Here's one example:
Jobs at the mill, running lines in buildings, or working in a warehouse require a 100k college degree? I don't think so.

Let's review again, GoldenChild claims:

A job that paid 30K a year 30 years ago probably still pays 30K a year today although that same job now requires a $100K+ bachelor's degree
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:55 AM
 
16,433 posts, read 22,139,938 times
Reputation: 9622
No. Many, many who once held good paying blue and white collar jobs will have to work as common laborers at minimum wage for the rest of their lives. The jobs have gone to China/India and they aren't coming back. That's the hard reality.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:59 AM
 
16,433 posts, read 22,139,938 times
Reputation: 9622
Quote:
Originally Posted by CK78 View Post
Even in NC you cannot live on $400 a week.
Yes, you can, but at a lower living standard than what has been considered normal for a US worker. There will be a new normal and it's shaping up right now.
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