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Old 02-17-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: FL
1,137 posts, read 2,422,013 times
Reputation: 787

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
Depends on your experience.

In mine, clever union bosses convinced employees that a union would benefit them when in fact the only real beneficiaries were the union bosses.

The union increased their demands to the point where the company packed up and moved south. Nice going - now no one had jobs.

And if a state does not have right-to-work, new companies will be reluctant to move in. Let's face it, it is a HUGE factor in deciding where to locate. If a state is NOT a right-to-work state, many companies won't give it a second glance.

I don't think we have anywhere near the same need for unions as we did decades ago. State laws mandate worker safety, pay, overtime etc. Frankly I think we would be better off without them. Not that I would want to take away a shop right to unionize, I think everyone should have a choice. Not having right-to-work eliminates choice for the worker. Not having it allows union bullying of the type we used to have in the dump where I grew up and where the unions drove almost all the shops out of town.

My experience so far, 3 yrs in florida, is positive. My employer has a mechanism to settle
issues that thus far seems practical and equitable. Get the idea that we count when there are problems because they have and objective person/group we can ask for advice and problem resolution ideas.
Hubby a devoted union member has expressed that even bullying during national elections was getting out of hand. They pretty much are there to push you to vote for the democrat every time. That is not American!


Sent from android cell
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
4,877 posts, read 5,745,002 times
Reputation: 8233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty View Post
The benefits of unions if that the protect workers by forcing employers to pay fairer wages, have better safety standards, and offer benefits. The downside is they are seniority based in layoffs and firings. So if you put in 15 years but everyone else puts in 30, even if you are more beneficial you will go. Also they can encourage a decent amount of giving the jobs to friends/family over people applying off the street. In the end though given how i see unionized workers care for their employees i would say they are better then the alternative.
My state used to have a huge union population, but nearly all of the unionized jobs are long gone now.

I watched as a smelter near where I live was having financial problems due to the low price of the product and having to install new upgraded equimpment for EPA standards.
So the management went to the union and told them that they would keep the plant open, and work to better the situation if the union would agree to freeze wages for 2 years to help the company get back on it's feet.

The union said fine, and went on strike. The company then gave them their raises as demanded, and shut down the smelter.
The union got its way, and the jobs are gone.
I saw the same thing happen with the railroad, with mining, with smelters all over this state.

Right now the only unions with a real presence left are the public employee unions and teachers unions. They have lost most of their power, and they sure do not provide a shining example of why anyone would ever wish to join a union.

My father and grandfather both had to join a union to get jobs where they worked. The only benefit I remember was when no paychecks were coming in because of strikes. Made for some tight times in the household, and I doubt the few cents an hour that were given back ever made up for the lost wages from the strikes.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
14,563 posts, read 13,193,453 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy7375 View Post
It allows one to take a job without being forced to pay union dues. Dues that can be spent on things said worker may not agree with or want to finance.
But it's against the law for union dues to be sent to political campaigns. If some union workers want to donate to a pollitical campaign, they are supposed to do that with a separate fund, voluntarily given to.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:54 PM
 
4,893 posts, read 2,860,763 times
Reputation: 1243
It doesn't. It benefits the employer. Calling it right to work is a sham
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:56 PM
 
4,893 posts, read 2,860,763 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
it helps keep their employer in business. when their employer goes out of business, that hurts workers.
Working for pennies with no vacations and no lunch break and no health insurance or other benefits would also help the company I'm sure
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:59 PM
 
4,893 posts, read 2,860,763 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
Depends on your experience.

In mine, clever union bosses convinced employees that a union would benefit them when in fact the only real beneficiaries were the union bosses.

The union increased their demands to the point where the company packed up and moved south. Nice going - now no one had jobs.

And if a state does not have right-to-work, new companies will be reluctant to move in. Let's face it, it is a HUGE factor in deciding where to locate. If a state is NOT a right-to-work state, many companies won't give it a second glance.

I don't think we have anywhere near the same need for unions as we did decades ago. State laws mandate worker safety, pay, overtime etc. Frankly I think we would be better off without them. Not that I would want to take away a shop right to unionize, I think everyone should have a choice. Not having right-to-work eliminates choice for the worker. Not having it allows union bullying of the type we used to have in the dump where I grew up and where the unions drove almost all the shops out of town.
You get rid of the unions and those state laws will be the next to go
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
14,563 posts, read 13,193,453 times
Reputation: 4435
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Short answer: freedom. That's a word that has lost cachet today. But it is the very reason this country exists. No one should have the power to force me to associate with anyone as a condition of getting and keeping a job. That's the bottom line.
But it's a fact that it's against federal law for you to have to join a labor union as a condition for getting a job. Once hired to a unionized work place, you will be asked to join the union, but you are not required to sign up and actually become a union member. If you don't want to be associated as a worker in a unionized work place, then avoid getting hired there.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:02 PM
 
6,226 posts, read 6,807,314 times
Reputation: 3098
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterboy7375 View Post
Show me where a machinest makes $8 an hr. Crist I pay $11 for unexperianced laborers as long as they have transportation.

Dont fall for the fact that all uniopn members make more then non union.
Aside from public employee unions and public construction they are very small around here. The majority of folks in these parts would rather negotiate their own wage then be lumped together with others, some of them underacheivers.
Its just a hypothetical.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:02 PM
 
4,893 posts, read 2,860,763 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Right to work is called freedom to go to work when everybody else is trying to lay around. If you don't like what a company is paying, one always has the right to get a job with someone else or start your own business.

One should never be required to join an organization in order to work for someone. When they have a choice and the company is being unfair to its workers, the choice is usually to go with the union, but too many unions are greedy and corrupt. I am talking about the unions in states where there are no right to work laws. When a person has the right to choose about their own welfare, they usually make the right choice and the corruption will not continue.

We recently went car shopping. I stood in a car lot with many GM cars and wondered what the price of those cars would be if the workers did not demand such high salaries. Then I went to another car lot. I like my GM car, but there is a limit to what I am willing to pay.
Did you wonder what the cars would cost if the manufacturer didn't demand such a high profit?
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,420 posts, read 74,256,808 times
Reputation: 47788
u r so right.
the jealousy factor makes americans cry ---down with unions and pensions.
millions for CEO's, billions for foreign aid, trillions for DOD war mongers
but when a financial crisis arises what is the only solution --- cut pensions and wages.
do u think the corporations and government are your friends? think again.
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