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Old 02-18-2012, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,375 posts, read 2,756,289 times
Reputation: 1041

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
And you think this is constitutional?

Do you view this as appropriate?

Who would want to join a military that limits your rights. Oh yeah, sign up and potentially get killed fighting unconstitutional, unjust wars, while we then take away your rights.
I can tell you've never donned the uniform and that's fine. The men and women who do sign up for military service do so willingly (for many a reason, mind you) and know what the life of the military is like. The rules are there for a reason and as was mentioned before it's much for the military member's protection as it is the civilians.

To be perfectly honest with you, it doesn't matter what the individual military member thinks. They have sworn to uphold a certain duty and they have rules/regulations/policies in place to do such a thing. Someone who has never served the military will never be able to truly understand.

I say this as a 24 year old man who has served for 4 years in the United Stated Navy. 2007 - 2011. Not once did I think my rights were being abused because there are rules in place that allow me, in one shape or another, to express my freedom of opinion and to voice my concerns. It just isn't as simple as shouting out at the top of my lungs. Again, no matter how much we might try and explain it to you, unless you don the uniform, you'll never understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caludhopper View Post
Sounds like slavery to me. It's a wonder they get anybody to volunteer.
It isn't slavery, friend. It's a volunteer service and without the military, you wouldn't be able to sit here and call it slavery like a free man. I respect your opinion, that's cool and all, but just like SSF, you sound like someone who's never served or is willing to serve. You won't understand unless you go through it yourself. It's what worked for me, though prior to enlisting I had no opinion of the military one way or another save that my father was a 20 year veteran (who sadly was killed 4 years ago saving the life of another man well after he retired).

Be careful with that slavery word. It holds a lot of weight and still has a lot of stigma attached to it. The military isn't some automaton machine just abusing it's members. There are policies, rules, and regulations in place to prevent such things from happening. Is the military perfect? Of course not. Then again, show me any company, any country, any military that is.

Again, you'll never be able to *truly* understand unless you serve.

 
Old 02-18-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,894 posts, read 16,275,630 times
Reputation: 12807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defective14 View Post
I can tell you've never donned the uniform and that's fine. The men and women who do sign up for military service do so willingly (for many a reason, mind you) and know what the life of the military is like. The rules are there for a reason and as was mentioned before it's much for the military member's protection as it is the civilians.

To be perfectly honest with you, it doesn't matter what the individual military member thinks. They have sworn to uphold a certain duty and they have rules/regulations/policies in place to do such a thing. Someone who has never served the military will never be able to truly understand.

I say this as a 24 year old man who has served for 4 years in the United Stated Navy. 2007 - 2011. Not once did I think my rights were being abused because there are rules in place that allow me, in one shape or another, to express my freedom of opinion and to voice my concerns. It just isn't as simple as shouting out at the top of my lungs. Again, no matter how much we might try and explain it to you, unless you don the uniform, you'll never understand.



It isn't slavery, friend. It's a volunteer service and without the military, you wouldn't be able to sit here and call it slavery like a free man. I respect your opinion, that's cool and all, but just like SSF, you sound like someone who's never served or is willing to serve. You won't understand unless you go through it yourself. It's what worked for me, though prior to enlisting I had no opinion of the military one way or another save that my father was a 20 year veteran (who sadly was killed 4 years ago saving the life of another man well after he retired).

Be careful with that slavery word. It holds a lot of weight and still has a lot of stigma attached to it. The military isn't some automaton machine just abusing it's members. There are policies, rules, and regulations in place to prevent such things from happening. Is the military perfect? Of course not. Then again, show me any company, any country, any military that is.

Again, you'll never be able to *truly* understand unless you serve.

Very well said.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,894 posts, read 16,275,630 times
Reputation: 12807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
And you think this is constitutional?

Do you view this as appropriate?
It is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
Who would want to join a military that limits your rights. Oh yeah, sign up and potentially get killed fighting unconstitutional, unjust wars, while we then take away your rights.

Lots of people apparently.

"The Army recruited more than 64,000 active-duty soldiers in Fiscal 2011."

Recruiting Command Meets 2011 Goals - Fort Bragg, NC Patch

All branches meet military recruiting goals - News - Stripes

U.S. Military Recruitment Going Strong | Navy SEALs Blog by USNavySEALs.com
 
Old 02-18-2012, 01:58 PM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,580,217 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defective14 View Post
I can tell you've never donned the uniform and that's fine. The men and women who do sign up for military service do so willingly (for many a reason, mind you) and know what the life of the military is like. The rules are there for a reason and as was mentioned before it's much for the military member's protection as it is the civilians.
Explain the rules of protection. How is preventing a service member from using their God-given rights a good thing?

Quote:
To be perfectly honest with you, it doesn't matter what the individual military member thinks. They have sworn to uphold a certain duty and they have rules/regulations/policies in place to do such a thing. Someone who has never served the military will never be able to truly understand.
I suppose not. When I was 18 years old, say 17 years ago, and the recruits decided to show up on my door-step, I decided to send the packing. I wanted no part of it. My dad was in the service, and I had heard enough of the immoral nature of the way administrative personnel treated their inferiors, that I decided that such was not for me. Actively cursing and demeaning those who had enlisted. That's not how you build morale. Now, on top of it, you're rights are taken away. Pathetic.

Quote:
I say this as a 24 year old man who has served for 4 years in the United Stated Navy. 2007 - 2011. Not once did I think my rights were being abused because there are rules in place that allow me, in one shape or another, to express my freedom of opinion and to voice my concerns. It just isn't as simple as shouting out at the top of my lungs. Again, no matter how much we might try and explain it to you, unless you don the uniform, you'll never understand.
So I can't understand that military men have their first amendment rights stripped from them when I see it, simply because I haven't worn the uniform?
 
Old 02-18-2012, 02:00 PM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,580,217 times
Reputation: 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
The military offers job security. In this economy, that's why enlistment has begun to increase after declining for a long period of time.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,375 posts, read 2,756,289 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
Explain the rules of protection. How is preventing a service member from using their God-given rights a good thing?
Our rights aren't God-given. They are defined by the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Separation of church and state and all that cool jazz.

Anyways, the rules of protection are the policies set in place and rules on how to deal with certain situations. There's these big books detailing exactly the regulations of a command or a fleet or a branch. It's quite interesting, really. Do I know them all off the top of my head? No, of course not and I won't sit here and attempt to convince you that I do, because I don't. All I can say is that there are venues for handling certain situations and without there being some sort of order established then the military would fall apart.


Quote:
So I can't understand that military men have their first amendment rights stripped from them when I see it, simply because I haven't worn the uniform?
It's not stripped. Not in the least bit. Again, you won't understand, rather, because you've never served. No matter what your father has told you about the military or what your own view points are, unless you live that life and experience it first hand, you just won't understand. I can go blue in the face (or get major hand cramps) attempting to explain it to you, but it's just a fruitless endeavor.

You may think whatever you want, and that's your fundamental American right to do so, and I respect your opinion. Just don't go thinking it's absolutely right and is certain fact when it isn't. I disagree with what your saying but that's just it - I disagree. You're not right, I'm not wrong. We just disagree with one another, nothing more nothing less.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,657,440 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
So I can't understand that military men have their first amendment rights stripped from them when I see it, simply because I haven't worn the uniform?
Based on your posts, that's not the only reason you can't see it. But it does appear to be the proximate cause.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 02:37 PM
 
5,334 posts, read 6,142,056 times
Reputation: 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly View Post
It makes one wonder what they are dying for. It certainly isn't for the First Amendment.
They aren't serving for their rights. They're serving for yours and mine.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,472 posts, read 14,382,943 times
Reputation: 15871
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
You have the governments army, and you have the peoples army.

They have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution.....

By peaceful means or by force, the US Constitution is the Holy Grail of this Nation.
I know you were stretching for a metaphor, Bent, but you failed.
The Government's army IS the people's army.

And what's with that 3rd sentence? Are you proposing a coup? Or is this just another cockeyed metaphor? If so, then what's the REAL meaning you are trying to imply here?

...and you have no idea what the Holy Grail is.
 
Old 02-18-2012, 04:21 PM
 
Location: New Hampshire
4,835 posts, read 4,822,733 times
Reputation: 3616
I am not AD nor Reserves nor NG so the rules do not apply to me. (I'm prior service)

I just arrived in DC and found out my hotel room overlooks Arlington Cemetery. It is so sad looking at the graves. Even from a distance.

I am excited for the march though I cannot march because of my back. I am going to have to walk slowly but I am happy to be here!
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