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Old 02-20-2012, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,375 posts, read 2,749,655 times
Reputation: 1041

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Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Status quo never helped anyone.

Active Military have sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution. Not a broken political system that has sold the country to foreign and domestic military/banking cartels.
Again, all your spouting is opinion. What you think doesn't make it so.

I respect what you think but just because you think the POTUS is an enemy of the constitution (and an argument can be made for nearly all the past Presidents), it isn't necessarily true or right.

Yes the military does indeed defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but we also obey the orders set down by the Commander and Chief. It's not one or the other. Either military members uphold the oath all the way or they don't at all.

It's not as hard as you make it out to be and you're really just making something out of nothing.

 
Old 02-20-2012, 11:56 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,566,092 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defective14 View Post
Again, all your spouting is opinion. What you think doesn't make it so.

I respect what you think but just because you think the POTUS is an enemy of the constitution (and an argument can be made for nearly all the past Presidents), it isn't necessarily true or right.

Yes the military does indeed defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but we also obey the orders set down by the Commander and Chief. It's not one or the other. Either military members uphold the oath all the way or they don't at all.

It's not as hard as you make it out to be and you're really just making something out of nothing.
If the POTUS starts an illegal unconstitutional war. Does the military follow that order without conscience or question?

If the POTUS orders US Military to attack and detain American citizens, should they obey that order?

How far does an enlisted man go before he dis obeys?


If the POTUS assassinates innocent people in a drone attack on a Country that HE has not declared war on, through Congressional approval, is that a problem for you?
 
Old 02-20-2012, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,450 posts, read 5,806,562 times
Reputation: 2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Status quo never helped anyone.
Well, if you believe the status quo is not quo, then change it.

As it is now, any active duty member who takes place in this should know the consequences.

Quote:
Active Military have sworn an oath to defend the US Constitution.
And to obey orders from the commander in chief, which is partially why many believe any presidential candidate should have military (real, not the nancy stuff W. Bush passed off as "experience") experience.

Quote:
Not a broken political system that has sold the country to foreign and domestic military/banking cartels.
There isn't a single presidental candidate or politician in general that will change this.
 
Old 02-20-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,793 posts, read 16,211,986 times
Reputation: 12748
Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Why is it enforced when people support Ron Paul and not when they are at a George Bush or Obama Rally?

Why has this never been an issue before?
It has always been an issue. You simply choose to ignore the fact that there is a huge difference between uniformed military members attending an event sponsored by a candidate and one sponsored or featuring the duly elected president of the United States, i.e. their Commander-in-Chief.

You also continue to ignore that part of the oath that states that in addition to honoring the constitution they will also respect the office of the Commander-in-Chief.

Why such selective reasoning?
 
Old 02-20-2012, 12:00 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,566,092 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
It has always been an issue. You simply choose to ignore the fact that there is a huge difference between uniformed military members attending an event sponsored by a candidate and one sponsored or featuring the duly elected president of the United States, i.e. their Commander-in-Chief.

You also continue to ignore that part of the oath that states that in addition to honoring the constitution they will also respect the office of the Commander-in-Chief.

Why such selective reasoning?
I've seen fully dressed military at NON POTUS Political events, there to support the candidate.

I've been around a long time. This is selective use of the UCMJ.
 
Old 02-20-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,450 posts, read 5,806,562 times
Reputation: 2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
If the POTUS starts an illegal unconstitutional war. Does the military follow that order without conscience or question?
Yes, or face discharge.

Quote:
If the POTUS orders US Military to attack and detain American citizens, should they obey that order?
Yes, or face discharge.

Quote:
How far does an enlisted man go before he dis obeys?
As far as he's willing to go. He can always disobey, but disobedience means discharge. Nothing more nothing less.


Quote:
If the POTUS assassinates innocent people in a drone attack on a Country that HE has not declared war on, through Congressional approval, is that a problem for you?
Irrelevant to the point.

Military people can have all the opinions in the world.

They still are bound by their sworn duties to obey the commander in chief.
 
Old 02-20-2012, 12:01 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,566,092 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasy Tokoro View Post



There isn't a single presidental candidate or politician in general that will change this.
Heard of Ron Paul?
 
Old 02-20-2012, 12:02 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,566,092 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasy Tokoro View Post
Yes, or face discharge.



Yes, or face discharge.



As far as he's willing to go. He can always disobey, but disobedience means discharge. Nothing more nothing less.




Irrelevant to the point.

Military people can have all the opinions in the world.

They still are bound by their sworn duties to obey the commander in chief.
Their oath to the US Constitution is primary, over the POTUS.
 
Old 02-20-2012, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,450 posts, read 5,806,562 times
Reputation: 2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Heard of Ron Paul?
Yes.

And he's not going to change a thing.

He can't.

Not without completely overhauling everything in our political system, which means getting rid of anyone currently holding office.
 
Old 02-20-2012, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,450 posts, read 5,806,562 times
Reputation: 2170
Quote:
Originally Posted by modeerf View Post
Their oath to the US Constitution is primary, over the POTUS.
Yet their oath to the POTUS still stands, and rallying against him (as in, a march on the white house) means discharge.

Might I bring up that someone you're arguing with in this thread was an active duty member, so has much knowledge on the subject.
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