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Old 02-19-2012, 03:00 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,917 posts, read 102,388,879 times
Reputation: 32973

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Better tell that to Obama and Pelosi. Need a link? :grin:
No.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:30 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,033,468 times
Reputation: 7282
"$500 a month in deductibles and co-pays for a family of two young adults and three healthy kids? I. . . .don't. . . . think. . . so"

the average deductable is over $1k per individual covered, so its quite possible. High deductable plans are increasing, and they typical feature at minimum a 5k deuductable per family. If one has 4 people covered, 2 adults, 2 kids, and between them they take 8 monthly prescriptions, just using a very typical $20 co-pay, that is $160. Now if they average 1 doc visit per month at $30, and 1 specialist every 2 months at $60 (30/mth avg), we're up to $220. That means $280 for deductable left to hit $500, $70 per person covered per month. Hardly unusual.

Do the math next time, Katiana. Medical expenses are one of the fastest growing itemized deductions on income taxes. It is because the actual amount incurred by BOTH patient and employer is rising far faster than inflation. And Obamacare did squat regarding cost control.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,722 posts, read 4,422,015 times
Reputation: 1376
I thought the op was discussing families of four, why are you adding another person?

A Family of four, not five, not one, four.

My insurance dumped the high deductible, low premium plans years ago.

I have a $250 yearly deductible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
"$500 a month in deductibles and co-pays for a family of two young adults and three healthy kids? I. . . .don't. . . . think. . . so"

the average deductable is over $1k per individual covered, so its quite possible. High deductable plans are increasing, and they typical feature at minimum a 5k deuductable per family. If one has 4 people covered, 2 adults, 2 kids, and between them they take 8 monthly prescriptions, just using a very typical $20 co-pay, that is $160. Now if they average 1 doc visit per month at $30, and 1 specialist every 2 months at $60 (30/mth avg), we're up to $220. That means $280 for deductable left to hit $500, $70 per person covered per month. Hardly unusual.

Do the math next time, Katiana. Medical expenses are one of the fastest growing itemized deductions on income taxes. It is because the actual amount incurred by BOTH patient and employer is rising far faster than inflation. And Obamacare did squat regarding cost control.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:41 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,917 posts, read 102,388,879 times
Reputation: 32973
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
"$500 a month in deductibles and co-pays for a family of two young adults and three healthy kids? I. . . .don't. . . . think. . . so"

the average deductable is over $1k per individual covered, so its quite possible. High deductable plans are increasing, and they typical feature at minimum a 5k deuductable per family. If one has 4 people covered, 2 adults, 2 kids, and between them they take 8 monthly prescriptions, just using a very typical $20 co-pay, that is $160. Now if they average 1 doc visit per month at $30, and 1 specialist every 2 months at $60 (30/mth avg), we're up to $220. That means $280 for deductable left to hit $500, $70 per person covered per month. Hardly unusual.

Do the math next time, Katiana. Medical expenses are one of the fastest growing itemized deductions on income taxes. It is because the actual amount incurred by BOTH patient and employer is rising far faster than inflation. And Obamacare did squat regarding cost control.
I'm better at math than about 90% of people on CD. I can often catch people in their math errors.

A high deductible plan is a different breed of cat altogether. It is usually selected by people who are self-insuring, rather than by people getting ins. through their employers. In fact, in 40+ years of having employer-provided insurance, I've never been offered such a choice. I work in a doctors' office and I do know of people with such plans. These plans usually have fairly low premiums, and if a person is buying their own insurance, they get a tax deduction as well.

Now, in a family of two healthy young adults and three kids, which is what I thought we were talking about, who would be going to the doctor and specialists that much, year-long? Who would be taking all those prescriptions? DH and I never took routine meds until our 50s, when "old age" started kicking in and we needed to control our blood pressure and cholesterol. My kids have never taken any routine meds. Most of the kids in the pediatric practice where I work do not take routine meds.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:49 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,033,468 times
Reputation: 7282
In a family of four, someone is going to the doctor each month. Kids get colds, the flu, as do mom and dad. The average American takes several prescriptions regularly. Again, if you are good at math, you should have done just as I did, and simply ran the numbers using common amounts for employee responsibility.

PS, High Deductable plans are the fastest growth segment of the employer insurance market. At the same time, in regular plans, deductables go up hundreds per year, so I'm afraid, in a few years, it will be hard to tell them apart.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,172 posts, read 7,025,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
No.
Didn't think so.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:30 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,917 posts, read 102,388,879 times
Reputation: 32973
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
In a family of four, someone is going to the doctor each month. Kids get colds, the flu, as do mom and dad. The average American takes several prescriptions regularly. Again, if you are good at math, you should have done just as I did, and simply ran the numbers using common amounts for employee responsibility.

PS, High Deductable plans are the fastest growth segment of the employer insurance market. At the same time, in regular plans, deductables go up hundreds per year, so I'm afraid, in a few years, it will be hard to tell them apart.
I had a family of four for many years. (Kids are now grown.) Once the kids got into elementary school, they rarely went to the dr, sometimes not even once a year. In high school, they had to have a yearly physical for sports, but they rarely went for anything else. Taking your kid to the dr. for a cold is pointless. There is no cure. In my years as a "young mom", I usually went to the dr. once a year for my annual, and I rarely went for anything else, probably until about age 50. I still don't go to the dr. very often for illness care. DH started going to the dr. once a year after a bout with kidney stones in his mid-40s. He, too, rarely goes for sick care.

Provide some evidence that the average American takes several prescriptions regularly. Maybe the average 60 year old. Who is that anyway? The average 10 year old, the average 60 year old, or someone in between?

These high deductible plans are "a pig in a poke" for the most part, IMO. I recall a poster here on CD who wrote that her family had a $5000 deductible and that they spent just under that last year. Several of us pointed out to her that the $5000 was on top of her premiums, and for a little higher premium, her out of pocket expense would have been much lower. $5000 is > 400/month. Why have insurance that is never going to pay out? We have patients in our practice with such policies, and they often ask for discounts, etc, which hurts our practice's bottom line. Some of our docs won't give them a discount, the feeling being that these peope chose these policies and should bear the consequences.
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
16,348 posts, read 16,475,018 times
Reputation: 12372
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
Doesn't add any validity to the lying Blogger. I'm sure every state in the country has max'ed their quota of 25% long ago. Know anyone getting section 8? Ask them the time lag and hurdles your need to go thru. And don't earn too much one week, how stupid, because it will kick you off or lower you benefits.

And SSI is not a automatic.

That is a year to year waiver.....not a one time thing.

So...every year the freeloader, with knowledge of what constitutes a "hardship waiver", can make sure they "qualify" for the waiver.......and wah-lah......stay on the gravy-train.
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:37 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,033,468 times
Reputation: 7282
Katiana, The evidence I have seen I could not diclose.due to privacy laws, but my last two employers, whose workforce (US) ar each 5 figures, have averaged in excess of 2 prescriptions per month per person covered on the plans. That info comes from our brokers, at the macro (corp) level, and its stayed consistently in the same range. Few families avoid far more office visits than yours has; in the real world, folks take kids to the doc with colds, often because they want to make sure its not something worse. The reality is, last i checked, medical deductions came in second only to mortgage deductions, on Americans aggregate tax returns. So $500 per month is hardly unusual for a family with kids, and that is the reason HSA use has exploded. To pay the $500 pre-tax.
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:42 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,033,468 times
Reputation: 7282
Katiana"Why have insurance that is never going to pay out?"

Originally, all Health Insurance was like that, and it was a better model than todays' PPO/HMO. News flash: Your boss likes todays model, since it brought him more patients. If folks were paying a percentage of cost instead of a flat co-pay, they might price compare more and not come when Johnny gets a cold.


The PPO/HMO 2012 model is overkill-very much like getting auto insurance to pay for oil changes. The High Deductable plans go to far to the other extreme. IMO, the 1970ish Health Insurance had it right; pay for hospital and ER, but pay NADA towards a routine doctors visit, or for prescriptions. Now with uber high cost prescriptions, I'd add that to the 70s model. Perhaps pay 90% of prescription cost above $50/month. But todays model has the user of services not caring enough about costs. So the $500 is only likely to go up, as employers cannot afford the cost increases, either.
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