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Old 02-20-2012, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,172 posts, read 7,024,958 times
Reputation: 4174

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Why should anyone think that helping the needy is wrong?

But what this underscores is the fundamental different values that the two sides have. Conservatives believe that taxes are theft and whatever one earns is there's. They believe programs that help the needy are a waste.

Liberals believe (as Adam Smith did) that societies winners need to pay a higher proportion of taxes to support the needy.
They do. A lot more.

Oh, another grammar error...
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
6,757 posts, read 3,393,636 times
Reputation: 2821
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
I've still not seen one lefty argue that all these entitlements are wrong just that the numbers are off. Hell they probably want to pile more on top to "feel good" about themselves with others money of course. Insanity has no bounds among these folks. We shouldn't even be having this "argument" in the first gdam place is what the problem really is.
Lol... don't be mad b/c you were fooled by propaganda. Learn from it...
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: NC
586 posts, read 515,001 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Liberals believe (as Adam Smith did) that societies winners need to pay a higher proportion of taxes to support the needy.

They do pay a higher proportion.
Say the tax rate is a flat 15% of all income. Person A makes $100,000/yr while Person B makes $25,000/yr. Person A contributes $15,000 in taxes while Person B contributes $3,750 in taxes.

But not only are the needy getting supported some "wanty" are getting supported now as well.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:50 AM
 
533 posts, read 855,476 times
Reputation: 772
You are very out of touch Katiana if you think it is unusual for a family of 4 who is not on govt. assistance to pay $500+ per month for healthcare. I have a coworker with 2 kids who is paying $400.00 just for the insurance premiums to cover his family. He recently had a back surgery and had to tap into his 401K to pay the $5000.00 not covered by insurance.
Meanwhile welfare collectors including illegal immigrants are enjoying FREE healthcare. Who says France and Canada have anything on us. We have great socialist style healthcare just not for everyone.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:56 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,915 posts, read 102,388,879 times
Reputation: 32973
Quote:
Originally Posted by southking500 View Post
You are very out of touch Katiana if you think it is unusual for a family of 4 who is not on govt. assistance to pay $500+ per month for healthcare. I have a coworker with 2 kids who is paying $400.00 just for the insurance premiums to cover his family. He recently had a back surgery and had to tap into his 401K to pay the $5000.00 not covered by insurance.
Meanwhile welfare collectors including illegal immigrants are enjoying FREE healthcare. Who says France and Canada have anything on us. We have great socialist style healthcare just not for everyone.
So one person makes it the norm?

I'm sorry your coworker had these problems, but I don't know if he's typical. As for "very out of touch", I raised a family of two kids, and I work in a pediatric office.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:59 AM
 
Location: NC
586 posts, read 515,001 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by southking500 View Post
You are very out of touch Katiana if you think it is unusual for a family of 4 who is not on govt. assistance to pay $500+ per month for healthcare. I have a coworker with 2 kids who is paying $400.00 just for the insurance premiums to cover his family. He recently had a back surgery and had to tap into his 401K to pay the $5000.00 not covered by insurance.
Meanwhile welfare collectors including illegal immigrants are enjoying FREE healthcare. Who says France and Canada have anything on us. We have great socialist style healthcare just not for everyone.
At small, privately owned companies I would say your figures are the norm.

I know at my company (~100 employees across the country), for a family of 4, if you choose the no deductible plan you will pay just over $700 out of pocket each month. For the high-deductible (Approx $4000 deductible for a family of 4) the monthly payment from the employee is around $350.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:04 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,915 posts, read 102,388,879 times
Reputation: 32973
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThrillIsGone View Post
At small, privately owned companies I would say your figures are the norm.

I know at my company (~100 employees across the country), for a family of 4, if you choose the no deductible plan you will pay just over $700 out of pocket each month. For the high-deductible (Approx $4000 deductible for a family of 4) the monthly payment from the employee is around $350.
So how much does the employer pay? That should count as income, if they are including Medicaid as "income".
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: NC
586 posts, read 515,001 times
Reputation: 275
For my company, for a single person the 3 options are:
~$70/month from employee and a $2800 deductible
~$115/month from employee and a $2000 deductible
~$250/month from employee and a $0 deductible.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:11 AM
 
Location: NC
586 posts, read 515,001 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
So how much does the employer pay? That should count as income, if they are including Medicaid as "income".
The company contributes the same amount no matter which of the three plans the employee chooses:

Single = $275/month
Married w spouse = $588/month
Employee and child = $548/month
Family = $850/month

And I agree it should count as income in this argument as well (for the people counting medicaid as income) but only the difference between employee's out of pocket and the employer's contributions.
For example: If I had a family of 4 and had the no deductible plan, the company is paying ~$65 more per month than I would. I would count that $65 x 12 as extra income, not the $850 x 12.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:43 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,915 posts, read 102,388,879 times
Reputation: 32973
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheThrillIsGone View Post
The company contributes the same amount no matter which of the three plans the employee chooses:

Single = $275/month
Married w spouse = $588/month
Employee and child = $548/month
Family = $850/month

And I agree it should count as income in this argument as well (for the people counting medicaid as income) but only the difference between employee's out of pocket and the employer's contributions.
For example: If I had a family of 4 and had the no deductible plan, the company is paying ~$65 more per month than I would. I would count that $65 x 12 as extra income, not the $850 x 12.
No matter how you compute it, the employer's share should count as income. The employee's share, including co-pays, deductibles, etc, should count as outgo. The latter will be different for everyone.
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