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Old 02-15-2008, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,200,144 times
Reputation: 4937

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Yeah..okay whatever..LOL..

You just can't seem to face the fact that the middle class. DESPITE NOT BEING LAZY.. is struggling to hold on to "middle class" status and remains stagnant. We're sick of wathching our hard work get us nowhere while the rich greedy corporate money machines get richer, fatter, continue to buy our politicians and push us further from the middle into the lower stratasphere.

sorry.. health insurance and the right to it should be available to all .. not just the rich elite!

I can't argue with someone who's post reflect no compassion or acknowledgement to the fact that there are HUGE problems that need major changes.. and who just want to dismiss everyone who is working hard to being "lazy".
Look TM - I appreciate your desire for affordable Heath Insurance. But, please, point out to all of us where, in law, is Health Insurance a "RIGHT" (your word) - please, show all of us -

And, get off your emotionaly high horse about "rich elites". I know many, many, many "non rich elites" who have very good health insurance that they pay for.

Again - show us where health insurance is a "right"
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,224 posts, read 4,999,760 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Look TM - I appreciate your desire for affordable Heath Insurance. But, please, point out to all of us where, in law, is Health Insurance a "RIGHT" (your word) - please, show all of us -

And, get off your emotionaly high horse about "rich elites". I know many, many, many "non rich elites" who have very good health insurance that they pay for.

Again - show us where health insurance is a "right"
GreatDay.. if you think that it has to be writtne in law to be human and compassionate than I feel sorry for you..

EVERYONE who gets sick and needs treatment DESERVES TO BE TREATED. . no matter WHAT the size of their wallet. I don't need to point out laws that state as such.. it's just HUMAN to have compassion and to know that everyone deserves to have their life and preserve their life for as long as they can. That means even if you don't make enough money to pay for health insurance YOUR life is not worthy any less than the "rich elite" or even the "non rich elite" who are fortunate enough to be able to purchase their own health insurance... WE ALL CAN'T BE WELL OFF ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT.. but we all deserve the treatment we need to preserve our life..

It's a sad sad thing when I have to point that out to you!
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Moon Over Palmettos
5,978 posts, read 19,865,269 times
Reputation: 5102
TM - Greatday asked you to cite where it is that it is a "right", not whether it is "deserved". I think you are digging yourself deeper and deeper here, IMO.
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,224 posts, read 4,999,760 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by bibit612 View Post
TM - Greatday asked you to cite where it is that it is a "right", not whether it is "deserved". I think you are digging yourself deeper and deeper here, IMO.

I've had this argument with him on antoher thread.. and I've said it before.. this country was founded on the principals that all men are created equal and that we all haev the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.. If you don't get treatment for a disease that is life threatening you are loosing your life.. and EVERYONE has the right to their life.. thereby everyone should have the right to treatment that saves said life!

I'm sick of having to have this same argument. All I see are a bunch of "haves" wanting to keeps something from the rest of us that "have not" and then making themselves feel better about their lack of compassion by dismissing the rest of those that may not make enough money to afford health insurance as "lazy"..which couldn't be further from the truth. NOt all people can make a lot of money, not all people can be "elite" nor would a lot of us want to be..

Bottom line.. my life or that of some middle class blue collar worker or heck , even the poor is NOT worth less simply because our pocketbook is not so big. Yes, I'm an emotional person on this issue.. WHY? Because I care about people and I can't stand to watch people be kicked to the curb or told they can't get treatment or die because they couldn't afford the ridiculous premiums.. Because I see how the middle class is struggling.. these people GreatDay and others like to call "lazy" are the furthest thing from it. Why does it seem that the more money someone gets and starts to acquire the less compassion they seem to have toward their other fellow man. If acquiring wealth means that I will turn into someone that feels that others are not worth as much as me simply because their wallet is smaller..or I start to get so paranoid about someone else trying to "take my money" I don't want to be "rich" or "elite".. I'll keep my compassion for my fellow human beings. That saying "Money is the root of all evil" is just becoming more and more true and is so evident on these boards... just makes me sad..

All that other stuff.. about "where is it written" is semantics.. How about this.. It's writtten in your heart!!! Period!! It's written in the golden rule " do unto others as you would have done to yourself". It's called compassion and if we have to have laws forcing people to be compassionate than I feel sad and sorry for the human race and what will happen in our future.
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Old 02-15-2008, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,200,144 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
All that other stuff.. about "where is it written" is semantics.. How about this.. It's writtten in your heart!!! Period!!
That was a very nice sentiment TM. Very nice.

However, when it comes to a complete change is direction for an entire nation - a complete change in philosiphy, asking where our LAW provides for this change is not "semantics".

We are a nation of laws TM - not a nation of "written in our hearts". LAWS.
You may not like this FACT - and I can appreciate that. But, it does not alter the facts either - and those facts are, that NO WHERE in our LAWS (including our Constitution or Bill of Rights) does the provision of healthcare, paid for by the entire nation, appear.

If you want it to appear, then, a Constitutional Amendment should be introduced, and presented to the States for ratification.

Laws TM -
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Old 02-15-2008, 08:46 AM
 
4,530 posts, read 4,076,996 times
Reputation: 2253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
Selfish? WTF? So it's the resposibility of the rich to take care of people who don't want to do anything with their lives or are on drugs? No, it isn't. If it's that big of an issue to you, YOU should be the one taking care of it. The people who are concerned are the ones the actions should be coming from. Don't take money out of people's pockets and spend it on something they don't want. That is STEALING. Taxation is stealing. The Founding Fathers would hate how America is right now. The country was founded with Libertarian ideology. Now it's just socialism. And I oppose any universal systems, because it takes liberties away. Next, they'll be telling you what foods to eat to keep taxation for health care down. So much for a country that was built on laws to protect Americans from a government that was too big and had too much power. Seems like you don't mind though.

And for the record, if I was rich, I would donate money all the time. My point is, you shouldn't make people who don't want to do it. It's robbery.
That argument has been used for ears so a few rich people can hide in a nice mansion while poor people can be crammed into projects (that includes working poor).

I like the insinuation you make that all poor people are on drugs or not doing anything with their lives. They may be out working or raising a child. They just may not be able to work as much as the upper crust wants. Or the hours aren't available to them or they don't have a 100% sure thing moneymaking scheme. To say poor people are on drugs or unproductive is a bad blanket statement. You might as well say all rich are hardworking and productive people.

Even better all the rich are predestined by God to be rich and all the poor are predestined to be poor so lets do nothing.
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:01 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,438,338 times
Reputation: 1928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Look TM - I appreciate your desire for affordable Heath Insurance. But, please, point out to all of us where, in law, is Health Insurance a "RIGHT" (your word) - please, show all of us -

And, get off your emotionaly high horse about "rich elites". I know many, many, many "non rich elites" who have very good health insurance that they pay for.

Again - show us where health insurance is a "right"
oh brother, show me where having police is a right, or firefighters, or schools, roads, libraries, i dont see that in the constitution so i guess its not a right.
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:02 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,438,338 times
Reputation: 1928
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1 View Post
That argument has been used for ears so a few rich people can hide in a nice mansion while poor people can be crammed into projects (that includes working poor).

I like the insinuation you make that all poor people are on drugs or not doing anything with their lives. They may be out working or raising a child. They just may not be able to work as much as the upper crust wants. Or the hours aren't available to them or they don't have a 100% sure thing moneymaking scheme. To say poor people are on drugs or unproductive is a bad blanket statement. You might as well say all rich are hardworking and productive people.

Even better all the rich are predestined by God to be rich and all the poor are predestined to be poor so lets do nothing.

LAMO
80-90% of those in poverty have a job
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:04 AM
 
2,643 posts, read 2,438,338 times
Reputation: 1928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
That was a very nice sentiment TM. Very nice.

However, when it comes to a complete change is direction for an entire nation - a complete change in philosiphy, asking where our LAW provides for this change is not "semantics".

We are a nation of laws TM - not a nation of "written in our hearts". LAWS.
You may not like this FACT - and I can appreciate that. But, it does not alter the facts either - and those facts are, that NO WHERE in our LAWS (including our Constitution or Bill of Rights) does the provision of healthcare, paid for by the entire nation, appear.

If you want it to appear, then, a Constitutional Amendment should be introduced, and presented to the States for ratification.

Laws TM -
nation of laws?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA, bush has single handidly tore up the constitution, wire tapping, violating the first amendement, spying,failing to protect our borders but god forbid we do universal health care!!, were gonna violate the constitution thats in pieces.
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,665,850 times
Reputation: 24861
I suggest we pass a set of laws that mandate that the government, through a progressive all sources income tax, provide for HEALTHCARE or the entire population. Simple and gets the job done.

The healthcare industry gets paid and the insurance industry has to sell thier false promises to some other suckers. Good deal IMHO.
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