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Are you getting a charley horse from all that twisting? Need to go to sleep b/c you're getting tired from insulting me? I"ll take on the social security issue first. I said absolutely NOTHING about SS in this thread, which is, after all, about student loans. The solvency or lack thereof of SS has nothing to do with someone living within their means. It's taken out of your check. You have no choice. You have to live on what's left. I'm not getting involved in another hijack started by someone else.
Re: the car issue-what happens when the old clunker goes and you are just graduating from grad school and have virtually no money available? Oh, right, you shouldn't have lived like that, you should do this, that, the other that a "brillian mind" can dream up.
For every problem, there exists a simple and elegant solution which is absolutely wrong.
- J. Wagoner, U.C.B. Mathematics
What is important to people is an indivdual decision. I am surprised you don't understand that. In any event, I had some of that financial education as I said, and so did my kids. We also had art and music.
Philosophy Quotes - Literary Quotes About Philosophy and Practically Everything Else (http://quotes.prolix.nu/Philosophy/ - broken link)
Let me ask you: Did you actually go to school in the US? When I was in 9th grade, back when Kennedy was president, we studied civics in Pennsylvania. In the late 90s/early 2000s, my kids studied civics in high school in Colorado. It is a standard part of high school curriculum in the US.
"tenth of the class"? I don't understand what you're trying to say.
Katiana, you said that people should live within their means. Social security is a program relied upon by people who purchase houses, buy new cars, buy TVs and all sorts of non essential things but do not save for retirement. That is hardly 'living within ones means'.
A person needs to plan ahead. If you cannot afford a car, live closer to work/school and ride a bike. Personally, I rode a bicycle to work for the first year out of college. Driving is hardly a necessity. With decent planning, a person can take care of themselves. The thing is this, people want to graduate college and instantly have a middle class lifestyle, which might not happen. Why are you so hell-bent on making up excuses to justify people not taking care of themselves?
1. I had no student loan debt facing me at age 21.
2. I was young during an EXCELLENT economy.
3. I bought a house when lending standards where pretty darn stringent so I wasn't "given" a mortgage more than I could afford.
4. I am from an economically prosperous area so if I lost a job, there was another good one around the corner.
Because of items 1-4 above, I was able to survive my own personal bad decisions. I think young people these days have a different set of circumstances to survive and there is absolute ZERO room for any errors.
I graduated with no debt right after my 22nd birthday and landed a very respectable job. Unfortunately at 22 I made some horrible decisions in my personal life and ended up getting myself fired in 2009. Because of the economy, I was unable to find a job in my career field and had to take a job in telemarketing just to make ends meet. Today I am unemployable in my field due to the amount of time ive heen underemployed, so my career is over possibly for life. It's as if I never got a degree. I am very fortunate I dont have student debt but I still kick myself every day for throwing away my life with a few bad decisions I thought were small at the time.
I completely agree in today's economy there is zero room for error.
bchris02, At the moment there is little room, but I'm hopeful that changes over time. Deferments are available for those caught in crunches temporarily, and that is the right way to deal with the affect setbacks can have on student loan repayments.
That's not the case, though. One of the reasons we have a student debt problem is due to rising default rates.
When the nominal amount owed per year according to the repayment schedule is something like $18,000, seizing a tax refund of a few hundred bucks just doesn't make much of a difference. And that's assuming the debtor has an on-the-books job involving a W2 and all that.
tablemtn, That does not wash away the debt, and the reality is, if they do not pay, eventually collection agencies will be used, and most of them will have real middle class or better incomes. BK offers no recourse, so we both know the default rates represent a point in time, but not the totality of what is paid back. There is no statute of limitations, no BK, so the debtor cannot run out the clock. That is as it should be, so when I say debts will be honored, I'm not suggesting it will be either easy, or pleasent. It may be via garnishment, tax refunds seized, even SS charged back for amounts owed.
most of them will have real middle class or better incomes.
But that's the problem - they don't. People who can afford to pay their loans generally pay their loans - on time and sometimes even ahead of schedule. The trouble happens when there just isn't enough money to go around.
And due to "interest and penalties," debts owed can easily double in size or more in only a few years. Once the nominal amount owed spirals out of control, the debtor's impulse is generally to give up.
You left out a key word-PRESENTLY. Until they do, deferments are properly granted, but once they do increase their income, the money can be collected. Interest will, and should accrue, as it serves as a deterrent to not pay for those who truly can pay. Now while the debtor can give up, that will not be their long-term desire, as they reconcile to the fact just 129 were discharged last year, a typical number.
So I'm not viewing this in the prism of the 20 somethings just out of school, but of the long-term. Their incomes at some point will rise, and they will pay down the loans. The faster they grow up and start paying when possible, the less onerous the penalties and interest will be.
Those seeking handout (i.e. bailouts) should start OVER. Meaning I'd have no issue with OWS or any other radical group seeking first a REPEAL of all student loans, followed by asking Congress to consider passing legislation giving away money for college students. At least, that would be HONEST than in terms of their intent. Calling them loans and having adults cry like 6 year olds when expected to pay the loan is analigious to throwing a tantrum to get a handout. Thankfully, there isn't any chance at legislation being passed allowing those who benefited from the loans being relieved of their obligations. In this instance, government works by not giving in.
Katiana, you said that people should live within their means. Social security is a program relied upon by people who purchase houses, buy new cars, buy TVs and all sorts of non essential things but do not save for retirement. That is hardly 'living within ones means'.
A person needs to plan ahead. If you cannot afford a car, live closer to work/school and ride a bike. Personally, I rode a bicycle to work for the first year out of college. Driving is hardly a necessity. With decent planning, a person can take care of themselves. The thing is this, people want to graduate college and instantly have a middle class lifestyle, which might not happen. Why are you so hell-bent on making up excuses to justify people not taking care of themselves?
Social Security has nothing to do with this thread topic. I doubt you've ever talked to any kind of financial planner, or even an insurance agent. They will all tell you SS is part of your retirement package. If you want to discuss social security financing, and "living within your means", start a thread. This is a thread about student loans, and people the OP thinks are stupid.
As far as cars, it is not your business what anyone else does. Someone with a professional income can certainly afford to buy a car and make car payments if they wish. For a single woman living alone, a new car may be the best bet.
I don't think I've made excuses for anyone in this thread.
Katiana, you said that people should live within their means. Social security is a program relied upon by people who purchase houses, buy new cars, buy TVs and all sorts of non essential things but do not save for retirement. That is hardly 'living within ones means'.
A person needs to plan ahead. If you cannot afford a car, live closer to work/school and ride a bike. Personally, I rode a bicycle to work for the first year out of college. Driving is hardly a necessity. With decent planning, a person can take care of themselves. The thing is this, people want to graduate college and instantly have a middle class lifestyle, which might not happen. Why are you so hell-bent on making up excuses to justify people not taking care of themselves?
What about minimum wage burger flippers? How much can they realistically save for retirement? Since these workers were never able to buy a home, they are always paying current rents and therefore paying substantially more over a lifetime for housing than they would have paid if they had bought a home - AND to boot will also have absolutely nothing to show for it in the end.
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