Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Blue collar workers generally don't have the funds to pursue additional vocational training. I support efforts to increase vocational training grants and/or tax breaks to companies who pay for or reimburse training costs to employees.
ottomobeale, The purpose of a corp is to increase shareholder value. Jobs are a byproduct, not the goal. Smart people train and educate themselves as the act of accepting a job is barter; the employee is getting something, the employer is getting something. Buying a product also makes both corp and buyer engaging in barter.
A corp cannot engage in acting as a parasite, since in all cases, via either employment or selling, something of equal value is rendered by the corp. Parasites simply take w/o giving.
In all seriousness though this is what Obama was talking about when he asked the American people to "pledge" to at least try one year of College, Vocational, Tech or Community College. But I guess that makes him a snob.
With all the waitresses, garbage collectors, cleaning ladies, etc. who have college degrees, does BO really think MORE education is the answer? "Over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (over 8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with over 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants." Over 317,000 Waiters and Waitresses Have College Degrees | motorcitytimes.com
The statistics saying that a having a college degree increases your chance of employment, or increases your income, is largely a reflection of the fact that ALL the upper classes and upper middle classes go to college. Add in the cost of college, and in modern America, college is not nearly worth the investment. Learn a trade that can't be outsourced, instead. Start a landscaping business. But don't let your parents waste/spend $100,000 on a college education that makes you a very over-educated waitress. Similarly, don't let your parents waste their money on helping you be an engineer, getting paid less then a waitress when you count all the hours required.
We've just made the bar higher--and much more expensive--to get into the job market, where you'll make less than the person without the college degree 10 years ago. No more benefits, vacations, or perks, either.
Remember when women entering the job force was supposed to make families much more prosperous? Instead, business simply pocketed the extra productivity and now it takes both parents to support a family. Then working hours started creeping from 40 hours a week to 60 or 80. And the businesses pocketed that productivity, too.
NHartphotog, The unemployment rate decreases with each additional level of education. The rate for college grads is about 5%; for hs grads, right around 10%, for those with less than a hs diploma, over 15%. While tens of millions are underemployed, the reality is the college grad making lattes at Starbucks displaced a high school grad, who might be lucky to displace someone without a hs diploma.
The trades largely depend on the discretionary income of the educated, so while they will not get outsourced, there are thousands of unemployed landscapers in regions that have lost jobs for the more educated.
I'm not a fan of Obama, but on this issue, he is spot on. It does not need to be college for all, but stopping after grade 12 is great..if you intend to work in China, all others need either education or formal training.
In America in 2012, a 18 year old one who stops at high school is consigned to at best, sporadic, minimum wage jobs.
With all the waitresses, garbage collectors, cleaning ladies, etc. who have college degrees, does BO really think MORE education is the answer? "Over 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees (over 8,000 of them have doctoral or professional degrees), along with over 80,000 bartenders, and over 18,000 parking lot attendants." Over 317,000 Waiters and Waitresses Have College Degrees | motorcitytimes.com
The statistics saying that a having a college degree increases your chance of employment, or increases your income, is largely a reflection of the fact that ALL the upper classes and upper middle classes go to college. Add in the cost of college, and in modern America, college is not nearly worth the investment. Learn a trade that can't be outsourced, instead. Start a landscaping business. But don't let your parents waste/spend $100,000 on a college education that makes you a very over-educated waitress. Similarly, don't let your parents waste their money on helping you be an engineer, getting paid less then a waitress when you count all the hours required.
We've just made the bar higher--and much more expensive--to get into the job market, where you'll make less than the person without the college degree 10 years ago. No more benefits, vacations, or perks, either.
Remember when women entering the job force was supposed to make families much more prosperous? Instead, business simply pocketed the extra productivity and now it takes both parents to support a family. Then working hours started creeping from 40 hours a week to 60 or 80. And the businesses pocketed that productivity, too.
We're in a race to the bottom of quality of life.
It's not just college. Vocational and Tech schools are training people to do work that is needed now and for future technology. You don't need a four year degree. I have friends who went back to school to get certified in Medical Coding. Why? EHR is the reason and even if Obamacare gets repealed health systems and doctor's offices are realizing that EHR is the way to go anyways. It's about more than just a four year college (which is a scam in the first place).
If a theater major wants to get a job on wall street with out applicable experience I have no sympathy if they get turned away not having a relevant degree. What is the number of those people that have a degree in something relevant to the larger sectors of the job market?
American companies are in business to make money, PERIOD. Not to train workers or provide day care centers or provide health care benefits nor retirement benefits.
Why bother to train American workers when it's hundreds of times cheaper to manufacture items overseas and never be worried about the next union strike?
Because of intellectual property issues and HIGHLY SLANTED policy in the foreign countries means they only make money for the first year or so then they hemorrhage money like fiends. Why outsource jobs when in a year you'll be competing against yourself essentially (or a copy of it) from a domestic company that is highly favored?
Master Lock, GE, Boeing, all the automakers, etc. are clamoring for more American workers. There's 600,000 unfilled jobs in the US for skilled manufacturing. You reap what you sow. In the 15 years of outsourcing "lemming-like" is what my CEO said, we've destroyed the manufacturing know-how of this country and further destroyed the faith that young people used to have in it. He said it's time they fessed up, shut up, and put up the money to retrain the workers. About damn time!!!
I believe Obama is spot on in terms of what it takes to get people trained. Tax companies who outsource and give tax breaks to those who insource and train new workers. Levy import tarriffs on goods produced in slanted countries like China. Those are what he says. The best Republicans can do is do name-calling.
Way to go R's! *rolls eyes* soap box aside, I do agree with him.
How many of you have ever worked in an actual factory making a real physical product? You should try it. It is not fun.
I have, plastic closures and glass bottles. Two different facilities, same company. You forgot to mention soul destroying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1984
I am not surprised about manufacturing jobs being filled by imported workers. It is low paying and body destroying work. The only places where one can barely survive on this low wages is in the rural south where the cost of living is low.
Not always. Union shops tend to have pretty good wages especially for the skilled positions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
The small company I work for, as well as other manufacturing shops in my area are facing this. CNC machinists and "manual" machinists are both in short supply. Much of this traces back to our pathetic excuse for an educational industry. For at least 40 years, going into "the trades" was looked down upon, and the better students were directed towards a H/S program best described as "college prep". Never mind the degree....even (largely) useless degrees like English Literature or Political Science were more "prestegious" than a career in the trades.
On top of that, most of today's graduates would be hard pressed to make it as a machinist. THey have to know a certain amount of metalurgy, math skills, including geometry and trig, have considerable computer skills and be able to read a blueprint. Most people aren't willing to put in the effort, and do not have the aptitude. As such, the shortage in skilled trades could be anticipated.
Pay scales for someone with those skills are often excellent. Back when I was with GM, skilled tradesmen made more than I did as an engineer (with some overtime anyway). Expect to see this pay scale shift upward due to the shortage of skilled personnel.
All of the above.
Schools have gotten rid of trades over the last 30 years (not 40 and I could argue 20) because parents want to be told that their kids are college material. I say 20 because that's when trades programs started to be gutted. The most popular Vo-Tech program in my system is Cosmetology.
As a teacher I deal with magical thinking from parents and students both on their suitability for college on an almost daily basis.
Kids who can't estimate an answer even though today's Math stresses estimating. Who can't add a column of single digits without a calculator or get confused when they have to find the average. I'm talking Arithmetic not Algebra.
Kids who want to be doctors and can't pass Bio or who want to be Chemical Engineers but skipped high school Chem because it was too hard.
In theory the ideal business does not produce anything but profit. many of these are located in the world's banking centers. Many are very profitable. Most are financial over head for the companies that grow, mine and manufacture things. As is frequently said, "follow the money". This is where the money has gone.
I was looking at some statistics presented on this forum on employment rates by job category. The results were interesting. If you want some good paying blue collar work try oil drilling labor, running a mining shovel or truck, or show up at a big steel mill or foundry and say you want to learn to tend the furnace. They will probably hire you on the spot. However if you do get hired prepare to work your arse off. The furnace tender job involves heat, dirt and danger. The oil roughneck involves hard physical work in all weather and hours.
For a quick seminar on what factory work entails try watching the Science channel shows. How it’s Made, Factory Made, etc will show you the interesting parts of the job.
Ironically I have been employed for over forty years mostly in offices with a short stint as a construction manager. At one time between office jobs I worked as a “hands on” machinist and welder for a prototype machine designer. I really liked working in an old barn with old machinery (we had a Bridgeport mill with electric coordinate indicator but that was it for modern tech) making some fantastic machinery. I did everything from assistant engineer/designer through cutting, welding and machining to painting and shipping. It was very satisfying and I regretted having to take another office job because the inventor that operated this shop did not charge his clients enough to afford to keep me around. I was working but going broke at the same time.
One of the persistent problems with blue collar work, no matter how skilled, is that the guys working in the offices get higher pay and more respect. The closer to the finances they are the more the money and the more the respect. It is also simple case of power. They can fire you but you cannot fire them. That is to me the most annoying part of needing to work for a living. I hate having to be subservient to anyone but am forced to do so because I cannot afford to live without working.
Most jobs have to do some training. Even when you have a skill you need to know exactly how to use it in the environment they hire you to work in.
I was lucky with my last full time job many moons ago. They needed people with training and skills that were not terribly popular at the time and did some testing on any interested employee. Then they chose us based on our "knack" for certain things and gave us 3 months training in COBOL. That's how I became a programmer.
I remember those days, and that scenario would never occur in today's business world - today they just grab an offshore worker. Often those workers fib about what they know, just to get their foot in the door.
A VP once told me that the cost savings was 3 to 1, so rather than invest in training their own workers, they just offshore. The ironic thing is, and I've seen this in places like Amex and Wells Fargo, they also 'in-shore' huge amounts of workers, and effectively run the entire I.T. department. Oh sure, the 'big shots' are American, but the scale of inefficiencies is amazing, and often those 'calling the shots' really don't know how bad the quality really is.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
