Is Bush keeping Osama alive for political purposes? (Iran, Christmas, suspect)

[Borov II]

USA was run by corporates, for the interest of corporates. we live in a matrix, an illusionary world created by corporates and we were suck in, believing it as a reality, while at the same time, the corporates suck us up. we received our hard earned money, only to pay for overcharged services. we pay taxes, only to see it disappeared to some corporates schemes. America is a country run by money. The vote doesn't matter. the neo-cons t is who decide who should be president, wether the public like him or not.

[TheHarvester]

Originally Posted by bigchuckie

Agreed there are parts of Pakistan even Pakistani's arent allowed in Or would even dare go into kinda like a yankee trespassing into parts of Appalachia

Interesting analogy, but you have to double the size of the mountains, multiply the isolation and fanaticism by about 100 times, and toss in a lot of sophisticated weapons in the hands of unsophisticated people in a part of the world that makes the most remote areas of Appalachia look like a London suburb.

I'm puzzled why so many people think it would be easy to find Osama. If it's so easy, then go find him! There's a $20 million bounty on his head, so if you believe he's easy to find then you have a great reward awaiting you. Good luck.

[TheHarvester]

Originally Posted by Borov II

USA was run by corporates, for the interest of corporates. we live in a matrix, an illusionary world created by corporates and we were suck in, believing it as a reality, while at the same time, the corporates suck us up.

This is also how I see the corporate world. The Matrix works in many ways as a metaphor for life, and one of my favorite interpretations is the way that corporations and materialism have alienated us from nature, music, social connections, community, creativity and our basic humanity. We're mesmerized by TV, we raise children who stand a foot away from televisions as they get bombarded with ads and hyperactive programming designed to dull their senses.

There is another interesting way to see corporations. They are super-organisms. Just as single-cell organisms united to form complex creatures like us, we are now organizing into larger organisms but our connection is not biological, it's driven by ideas and common interests. Corporations are creatures with memes instead of DNA. They are a higher step of evolution, which isn't good or bad, it's just evolution and it has no objective. Increasing complexity is a natural process, which is hard for most people to understand. But if you get the basic rules of the game then you can easily see how this process happens without anyone directing it.

[SepiaZelda]

Originally Posted by TheHarvester

Interesting analogy, but you have to double the size of the mountains, multiply the isolation and fanaticism by about 100 times, and toss in a lot of sophisticated weapons in the hands of unsophisticated people in a part of the world that makes the most remote areas of Appalachia look like a London suburb.

I'm puzzled why so many people think it would be easy to find Osama. If it's so easy, then go find him! There's a $20 million bounty on his head, so if you believe he's easy to find then you have a great reward awaiting you. Good luck.

I'll bring the jerky. Will you bring the night goggles? We can split the bounty!

[Rggr]

I think it was a PR mistake to make it so much about one person in the first place. Yes, he's important symbolically, but the military should focus on the big picture of al qaeda rather than focusing on a manhunt. As a result, by being able to hide, it looks like a victory for him.

[Magnum Mike]

Somebody here had a good point about the U.S. not going after bin Laden because if we killed him, we will have given him exactly what he wanted, the martyrdom every radical Muslim wants. Let him suffer the isolation he and this other guy Zawahairi (sp?) for the rest of their miserable lives.

We also need to encourage other countries in that region to discourage their young crowd from joining into this jihadist movement. 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and I hope they're doing something to break this trend of jihadist movement. This is a global war people, and it requires a global force to stop it. If nobody does anything about it, then these radicals will end up over here, and we already have a large Muslim population in the United States, we don't want it to get any worse.

[bily4]

Maybe Cheney's got him locked up in the man sized safe he has in his office.

[rd2007]

Originally Posted by mhouse2001

Claiming the Democrats are denying there's terrorists is completely off-base. I don't support either party, but, c'mon, get real. I saw Boxer this morning saying things that were surprisingly Bush-like on terrorism, rather disheartening. I don't support the idea that fighting terrorism means we have to commit more of it. That some Democrats oppose this insanity provides a least a little hope.

But if the government can track your cellphone call and locate your whereabouts at any given moment, zero in on your home computer and review your internet browsing, spot your car license from a satellite, get your bank accounts and see where you shop, etc.. Why on Earth does anyone believe that Osama is anything other than a fabrication? They can certainly find the Al Qaeda computer servers, can't they? I think Al Qaeda would be nearby, don't you?

There's several websites comparing the latest video to previous ones and they're pretty convincing in concluding that it's not him. No Muslim would dye his hair. His eyebrows are in the wrong place and his nose is definitely bigger. It's not Osama, in my opinion. He's the boogey man propped up to scare us into submission. I have the video from the news shortly after 9/11 where he is said to have expressed surprise at the attacks on 9/11. How did that FACT reported on several major media sources disappear into thin air...so much so that when this latest video came out last week, the NBC anchorman introduced him as "the 9/11 mastermind"? How short Americans' attention spans are!

With all that snooping ability, our multi-trillion dollar government can't find ONE guy? Isn't there a Brooklyn Bridge somewhere for sale?

oh man, it's almost too easy to destroy this one.. most everything you mentioned involves SIGINT and IMINT, easiest way to get by that is don't talk on anything electronic and never show your face. Boom! you've freaking disappeared...
and saying I saw this on several web sites is an invitation to ridicule.. hope you enjoyed it

Originally Posted by Visvaldis

How convenient that Osama pops up as the elections draw closer. I'll bet we'll be hearing more about terrorism in the second half of next year.
Osama has much more value being on the loose than if he was captured. His tapes and videos do wonders to inject more paranoia, and give more credibility to the Right. Who knows what horrific events we'll see in the media as the elections nears. One can only guess, unless one can read the mind of Cheney.

do you go out in public with all that tin foil on??

Originally Posted by TheHarvester

I don't see why this is such a big conspiracy to so many people.

Osama managed to escape the invasion of Afghanistan and most likely is hiding in Pakistan. We cannot invade Pakistan because that's one of the world's largest nations, they have nuclear weapons, and they have a huge Islamist population that would love to get rid of Musharref and replace him with a religious fanatic who would be more inclined to go to war against the USA.

Given the above equation, isn't it reasonable to assume that Osama has found safe haven in the best place he could have possibly chosen, simply because he is smart and planned ahead? Dude is smart. Like him or not, he's smart. He knew where to go. He knew about the consequences of 9/11. And we can't just go smoke him out of Pakistan without upsetting the global balance of power.

Aside from all the above, why is Bin Laden so important? He's merely a symbol. If he were killed or arrested, he'd become a martyr for the cause. It's not like he's orchestrating every bad thing that happens on the planet, he's just a guy who had some good leadership and strategic thinking skills. Take him out and it will only be a hollow symbolic "victory" for the USA. He's not as important as we make him. In fact, the attention we give to him is his primary source of importance. We're just feeding the troll by paying attention to his sorry aaasssss.

I rarely agree with you, but I pretty much do on this one. I even gave you + rep for it, which I considered wishing I could take back when I read some of your later posts....

Originally Posted by Visvaldis

Osama is useful in that he provides a face for terrorism. If Osama was caught it would severely deflate the neo-cons war on terror. That could provoke the American people to express a stronger voice about leaving Iraq, and maybe even repeal the Patriot Act. Things like that would surely be considered as a disaster for the current administration.

I think you own stock in Reynolds aluminum.. that has to be it.. I think it's illegal to push stock on this forum though....

Originally Posted by ParkTwain

Incompetence is a sufficient reason.

very nice.. you just called every military person that served the past 6 years incompetent.. congrats, we have a word for you too...

Originally Posted by Berkshires413

Something very interesting to consider:

When Seeing and Hearing Isn't Believing

Bill Arkin

By William M. Arkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Monday, Feb. 1, 1999

"Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government." So begins a statement being delivered by Gen. Carl W. Steiner, former Commander-in-chief, U.S. Special Operations Command.

At least the voice sounds amazingly like him.

But it is not Steiner. It is the result of voice "morphing" technology developed at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.

By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner's voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.

Washingtonpost.com: dot.mil

That has to be why they invented that machine... nobody would possibly engage in PSYOPS... nah.... I believe that other guy has the mega roll of tin foil..

Originally Posted by Borov II

USA was run by corporates, for the interest of corporates. we live in a matrix, an illusionary world created by corporates and we were suck in, believing it as a reality, while at the same time, the corporates suck us up. we received our hard earned money, only to pay for overcharged services. we pay taxes, only to see it disappeared to some corporates schemes. America is a country run by money. The vote doesn't matter. the neo-cons t is who decide who should be president, wether the public like him or not.

I'll give you a break and assume you're from a foreign country... that was just really bad...

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

Somebody here had a good point about the U.S. not going after bin Laden because if we killed him, we will have given him exactly what he wanted, the martyrdom every radical Muslim wants. Let him suffer the isolation he and this other guy Zawahairi (sp?) for the rest of their miserable lives.

We also need to encourage other countries in that region to discourage their young crowd from joining into this jihadist movement. 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and I hope they're doing something to break this trend of jihadist movement. This is a global war people, and it requires a global force to stop it. If nobody does anything about it, then these radicals will end up over here, and we already have a large Muslim population in the United States, we don't want it to get any worse.

very good points, however, most far left leaning people have been shown the facts on what the spread of islam is doing to Europe and they choose to view it as fiction...

[TheHarvester]

Originally Posted by SepiaZelda

I'll bring the jerky. Will you bring the night goggles? We can split the bounty!

I'm free for the next 3 months. Let's roll!

Originally Posted by Rggr

I think it was a PR mistake to make it so much about one person in the first place.

Amen to that!!! It's stupid on the part of anyone who uses UBL as a symbol to make their cheap political points. One man isn't the cause of this. He's just a figure head, the brain behind one aspect of a much bigger problem. If he gets captured or killed, nothing will be solved. Democrats are idiotic to make a big deal about him, they use his non-capture as a talking point to bash Bush, which is mindless partisan childish bickering and serves absolutely no intelligent purpose.

Originally Posted by rd2007

I rarely agree with you, but I pretty much do on this one. I even gave you + rep for it, which I considered wishing I could take back when I read some of your later posts....

Well, you can always negate the positive rep after you've "spread the love" for a few days (which sounds kind of gross, so I hope you don't spread it in my apartment!)

Truth be told, I agree with you more than you think I do. I post comments that are intentionally inflammatory because I go to web forums to be entertained and educated. I can't be educated if I'm merely chatting with people who all agree, and I can't be entertained if I don't see some fireworks. I've always considered you a very respectable conservative, worthy of a spot on Crossfire or The McLaughlin Group. You're a good spokesperson for your point of view, unlike others who stoop to childish invective... like, uhhh, that guy who calls himself "The Harvester" formerly known as "Deeptrance" --- that guy is a jerk!!!!

[SepiaZelda]

Originally Posted by TheHarvester

I'm free for the next 3 months. Let's roll!

Excellent! You don't mind if I bring several suitcases for my shoes, right?