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Old 03-18-2012, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,528,322 times
Reputation: 7807

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayneb View Post
I agree with some of what you posted, cost could be reduced with more competition allowed but many of these drugs would not be needed for the vast majority of people if we took better care of ourselves.

Why should your doctor have to prescribe drugs for lowering cholesterol instead of first telling you to change your diet and exercise? You may just need to give up or greatly limit meat and other foods that drive cholesterol sky high.

Why do we have sin taxes on cigarettes but not fast food? Why doesn't that pail of soda from a convenience store cost as much as a pack of cigarettes?

Maybe the doctors should be telling people who are overweight to put the fork down a little earlier and stop eating so much crap and maybe you just might cure your high blood sugar,also while your at it throw away the salt shaker.

Many people have self destructive behaviors and instead of listening to good advice they will argue and complain right up until they take their last dying breath, maybe the only way for some people to learn is to make bad choices so expensive that they are not worth pursuing.

That road leads to government mandated and enforced behavior. Where does it stop? And, how can one be truly free if he allows government to dictate his lifestyle to him?
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: So. Cal
277 posts, read 626,905 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
That road leads to government mandated and enforced behavior. Where does it stop? And, how can one be truly free if he allows government to dictate his lifestyle to him?
If people want someone else to pay for their healthcare, they must at least try
and lessen their need for it.

If people aren't smart enough to take care of themselves and are unwilling to listen to advice then why should you get rewarded for it, if you want total freedom to do anything you want, then pay for the consequences yourself.

Raising taxes on unhealthy food to offset healthcare costs is much more fair then asking someone else to pay for the ever increasing healthcare cost of people who are unwilling to try and live a healthy lifestyle.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:23 AM
 
59,029 posts, read 27,298,344 times
Reputation: 14275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayneb View Post
I agree with some of what you posted, cost could be reduced with more competition allowed but many of these drugs would not be needed for the vast majority of people if we took better care of ourselves.

Why should your doctor have to prescribe drugs for lowering cholesterol instead of first telling you to change your diet and exercise? You may just need to give up or greatly limit meat and other foods that drive cholesterol sky high.

Why do we have sin taxes on cigarettes but not fast food? Why doesn't that pail of soda from a convenience store cost as much as a pack of cigarettes?

Maybe the doctors should be telling people who are overweight to put the fork down a little earlier and stop eating so much crap and maybe you just might cure your high blood sugar,also while your at it throw away the salt shaker.

Many people have self destructive behaviors and instead of listening to good advice they will argue and complain right up until they take their last dying breath, maybe the only way for some people to learn is to make bad choices so expensive that they are not worth pursuing.
If what you say is what you have experienced, I suggest you find another doctor.

When I found out I had high cholesterol my doctor DID say I should change my diet, he did suggest I loose weight, in combination with medicine.

As an aside, are you aware a "new' study now says salt is NOT the evil thing we have been told for years?
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:26 AM
 
59,029 posts, read 27,298,344 times
Reputation: 14275
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
That road leads to government mandated and enforced behavior. Where does it stop? And, how can one be truly free if he allows government to dictate his lifestyle to him?
One step at a times is how the gov't has worked for years.

They ban smoking, etc. what is next, skydiving, skiing, parachuting, white water rafting etc., etc., etc.?
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:04 AM
 
1,332 posts, read 994,661 times
Reputation: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahzzie View Post
To all of you conservatives out there who rail against socialized medicine:

You say you don't want your taxes to pay for other people's healthcare. I understand that point of view. Unless you've been living under a rock the last 50 years then you know that the price of healthcare has evolved to a point to where it is out of reach for the vast majority of Americans. My challenge to you if you oppose socialized medicine is to offer viable solutions that would bring that cost down to a point that the lowest wage earners in this country could afford an extended hospital stay and the necessary followup therapy and/or care that is required to treat a major illness.

You say you want people to pay for their own medical care, well either do something to bring down the cost or accept socialized medicine as the alternative. The system has gotten to a point where it cannot sustain itself in its current form. None of us choose to be sick so you cannot expect medical services to be reserved solely for the ultra-rich. That is a system that is doomed to failure.
FACT:

One of the biggest problems for skyrocketing medical cost is the cost of MALPRACTICE insurance for doctors and Insurance protection for Hospitals. The government sticks there nose in anywhere else....why doesn't it regulate the amount of AWARDS handed out?

FACT:

We have seen General Practitioners go out of business in the past couple of decades...mostly because they cannot afford the cost of medical insurance. Since that has happened, people are choosing to go to the EMERGENCY ROOMS or URGENT CARE CENTERS with ailments as minor as COLDS. With the price of ER treatment being SOOO much higher than a standard doctor's visit, the insurance companies are being billed at an extremely high rate.

FACT:

I have seen this in the past...if you go to the family doctor, and you pay out of your own pocket, it is one price....if you have INSURANCE...it is a much higher price charged. That smacks of FRAUD. And it was common practice years ago...that drives the price of healthcare UP. Not only that...but when hospitals get away with charging $5.00 for Ibuprofen or Acetominifen doses, then something is WRONG.

FACT:

If you do NOT have insurance, it is almost impossible to get a Family doctor. Not only that, but even if you DO have insurance, it is almost impossible to get a family doctor because there are fewer and fewer and the polulation continues to grow. Doctors these days are getting degrees that are more specialized than standard degrees that would dictate they be General Practitioners. The cost of education is so high that they decide that as long as they are paying for the edu cation in the long run...gthey might as well max their earning potential.

There are OTHER things that could be done as opposed to getting the government involved in providing healthcare AND dictating that you MUST have it. Getting the government involved will only lead to one thing...HIGHER COSTS...just as with everything else the government touches. It is the WRONG way to go, and anyone who believes that government run healthcare is a good thing and is going to bring down costs is a fool.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:05 AM
 
4,534 posts, read 4,929,893 times
Reputation: 6327
Japanese Pay Less for More Health Care : NPR

Quote:
Japan produces cars, color TVs and computers, but it also produces the world's healthiest people. It has the longest healthy life expectancy on Earth and spends half as much on health care as the United States.

That long life expectancy is partly due to diet and lifestyle, but the country's universal health care system plays a key role, too.

Everyone in Japan is required to get a health insurance policy, either at work or through a community-based insurer. The government picks up the tab for those who are too poor.

It's a model of social insurance that is used in many wealthy countries. But it's definitely not "socialized medicine." Eighty percent of Japan's hospitals are privately owned — more than in the United States — and almost every doctor's office is a private business.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: So. Cal
277 posts, read 626,905 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
If what you say is what you have experienced, I suggest you find another doctor.

When I found out I had high cholesterol my doctor DID say I should change my diet, he did suggest I loose weight, in combination with medicine.

As an aside, are you aware a "new' study now says salt is NOT the evil thing we have been told for years?
The point I was making is that lifestyle changes should be first, drugs should be prescribed only when dietary changes and exercise are proven to not be working. If you stop eating red meat or severely reduce your intake of it while also increasing your consumption of fruits and vegetables you can lower your
cholesterol.

It may even be necessary to become a vegetarian and walk several miles a day but most people will have much better cholesterol numbers if they eat right and exercise. You will also lose weight and feel better as a bonus.

I just read about the European study on salt intake in an L.A. times article.
Salt and cardiovascular disease: High levels of salt not dangerous, new study finds - Los Angeles Times I am inclined to believe what the president of the American
Heart Association said about that "new study".
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,886,908 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post

They are little tiny people. Tiny people live longer.

Why do hispanics in the US have a longer life expectancy than whites?
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:49 AM
 
Location: So. Cal
277 posts, read 626,905 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Rep View Post
FACT:

One of the biggest problems for skyrocketing medical cost is the cost of MALPRACTICE insurance for doctors and Insurance protection for Hospitals. The government sticks there nose in anywhere else....why doesn't it regulate the amount of AWARDS handed out?
I agree 100% that this is a major contributor to healthcare costs increasing, I wish we would address this issue.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Cape Coral
5,503 posts, read 7,332,984 times
Reputation: 2250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahzzie View Post
To all of you conservatives out there who rail against socialized medicine:

You say you don't want your taxes to pay for other people's healthcare. I understand that point of view. Unless you've been living under a rock the last 50 years then you know that the price of healthcare has evolved to a point to where it is out of reach for the vast majority of Americans. My challenge to you if you oppose socialized medicine is to offer viable solutions that would bring that cost down to a point that the lowest wage earners in this country could afford an extended hospital stay and the necessary followup therapy and/or care that is required to treat a major illness.

You say you want people to pay for their own medical care, well either do something to bring down the cost or accept socialized medicine as the alternative. The system has gotten to a point where it cannot sustain itself in its current form. None of us choose to be sick so you cannot expect medical services to be reserved solely for the ultra-rich. That is a system that is doomed to failure.
You want solutions? Here you go. If I pay for my health care but you don't pay for yours then mine is going to be better than yours. We should have clinics for those that can not afford their own coverage. I don't mind kicking in for that. I pay so I can call my doctor for an appointment. You don't pay so you go to a clinic. If you are not happy with that either get a job with benefits or pay for your own.
There is no reason that my health care should get worse so that you can get covered on my dime.
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