Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We know both of them were on the ground...and that 2 people were wrestling It's just hard to say if the teen got irritated and hit the guy, or if this guy grabbed the teen and it went from there.
What would the evidence as it stands now tell you? It strains credulity to think that Martin is the one who initiated the action here. It was Zimmerman who initiated the entire thing, from beginning to end. The only question you're essentially raising is whether Martin attacked Zimmerman after Zimmerman had already confronted Martin. Moreover, we the 911 calls give us critical evidence of two things here:
a) that Zimmerman initiated the entire sequence of events; and,
b) Zimmerman's state of mind was agitated.
Thus, it is much more likely that Zimmerman is the one who initiated the physical confrontation. Moreover, even if you are unsure as to this particular technical aspect of the case, it could reasonably be argued that Martin felt threatened enough by Zimmerman's confrontation and his aggressive behavior that it was *he* - not Zimmerman - who was acting in self defense.
I'm sorry, but any way you cut this, Zimmerman is the unlawful aggressor here. I don't think any reasonable person could see this otherwise.
Zimmerman’s pursuit and confrontation is what lead to the murder. His overzealousness lead to a serious crime. Being a neighborhood watch captain doesn’t give you the authority to be a killer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz
Not speaking about the killing....
I am talking about Zimmerman being overzealous about the "watchman" routine precluding the killing. By the time it escalated we don't know if it was out of self-defense/fear or just anger.
No, i wouldn't be OK with it if it was my son...what kind of question is that? Naturally, anybody is going to let their emotions cloud their thought process under those circumstances.
I'm sorry, but any way you cut this, Zimmerman is the unlawful aggressor here. I don't think any reasonable person could see this otherwise.
Wrong...Zimmerman was the initiator...not the aggressor...
he COULD have been but we don't know that yet. Under the non-aggression principle it would ONLY interfere with free-will and self-determination if he initiated violence physically...a.k.a aggression.
We don't know if he did that...He COULD have.
Was he passive-aggressive? Yes, undoubtedly. But that doesn't validate peoples calls for first-degree murder and even more outlandish, capital punishment.
What does size matter?? Seriously, how is the 100 lb argument valid??
Have you seen Zimmermans pics?? He is fat and clearly out of shape.
I will take a spry 150lbs over a sloppy 250 lbs. in a fight 8 days a week.
And what business did he have approaching him ?? He was capt. of the Neighborhood Watch team...so obviously he had the neighborhoods blessing. I don't think he needed to take the hero role so seriously but he didn't do anything outside of the law by doing so.
I'm bigger than Zimmerman, but I would never see someone who looks like Trayvon Martin as a threat to my safety or to anyone else's. If I were a duly appointed Neighborhood Watch person or even a cop, I might - might - have rolled up to Trayvon and asked him how he was doing, but I would never have confronted this kid with the demeanor that I was assuming he was dangerous. A big part of law enforcement is using your words and wits to gain trust of everyone, not to antagonize anyone. In the long run, that avoids confrontations and situations that end up in the unnecessary shooting deaths of unarmed 17-year-olds.
I'm bigger than Zimmerman, but I would never see someone who looks like Trayvon Martin as a threat to my safety or to anyone else's. If I were a duly appointed Neighborhood Watch person or even a cop, I might - might - have rolled up to Trayvon and asked him how he was doing, but I would never have confronted this kid with the demeanor that I was assuming he was dangerous. A big part of law enforcement is using your words and wits to gain trust of everyone, not to antagonize anyone. In the long run, that avoids confrontations and situations that end up in the unnecessary shooting deaths of unarmed 17-year-olds.
It's all perception...
You don't think stickman is a threat to you until his knuckles cut you open...
Honestly, I don't know if I would have approached him. I might have observed though...that is the premise of neighborhood watch. You're looking after your neighbors. I might have taken the diplomatic approach as well...Introduced myself and let him know simply what I was doing...
It's pretty obvious that Zimmerman is not a refined individual.
It's highly likely that Zimmerman was annoyed but a recent rash of break ins and took the antagonist approach...which I don't condone. But one thing I felt compelled to clear up was that in no way was Zimmerman outside of his rights for approaching and asking the kid a question in the interest of his community.
As a Private citizen he can in fact do alot of things that a poliec eooficer can't. He for instance can not do a illegal search nor does his doig so prevent polcie form usig any evicence he may find.Thereare alot of rules that olt apply to poice and often priavte citzens use what would get a polcie officer fired.We will have to let the legal system decide in the end.
He was the neighborhood watch guy and seeing how there had been several burglaries in the area he was worried about the thugish teen looking in all the houses as you can hear him say he is doing on the tape.
That's the problem right there. Zimmerman, like you, took a look at a person walking in a neighborhood and made a mental assessment of "thug."
How does a person demonstrate a thuggish appearance, if they are not intimidating another person, are not in the act of committing a crime, do not have gang-related clothing, aren't carrying a weapon, don't have stereotypical accoutrements like tattoos, jewelry, etc that might make a person think, "there's a thug"? Please, answer that. If I see a teenager walking down the sidewalk, what clues about that person could hint at their being a "thug"?
From what I've read, Zimmerman reported the boy was walking around "looking at homes", not looking in homes; the distinction being that Martin wasn't necessarily going up to house exteriors and peeking in windows. He could have been looking from the sidewalk, and Zimmerman had no way of knowing if Martin really was looking in with a purpose, and if so, with what purpose in mind. Bottom line is that Zimmerman had already formed a conclusion about Martin and tied Martin in with all those "other ones" who "always got away." Zimmerman left his car to engage in a mission to prevent "this one" from getting away. It was a vendetta.
If you or Zimmerman had seen George Huguely, the UVA student and lacrosse player who was recently convicted of beating his girlfriend to death, walking in a community (and you didn't know who he was), would your mind go thinking, "thug! I'd better stop him!"?
My version of justice starts out with detainment, charges, prosecution and then a conviction if found guilty in the court of law. What’s yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA
Don't you mean your version of justice?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
