Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:11 AM
 
2,838 posts, read 3,486,894 times
Reputation: 1406

Advertisements

There has been much criticism on this thread about constitutional interpretation, which is a function of the Judicial Branch. This is nothing new. Every time the federal courts come out with a decision that is contrary to popular sentiment, there is a great outcry about "liberal judges," "conservative judges," "activist judges" - not to mention a general call to "reform" the courts, or do away with them altogether. Such criticisms are hardly justified. Indeed, it would be difficult to find a more staid group than those that make up the federal judiciary. (One does not get ahead by espousing radical ideas, one way or the other, about the law: witness the failed confirmation of the appointment of Judge Robert Bork to the Supreme Court.)

Given the role of the Supreme Court (and lower federal courts) in the system of checks and balances provided in the Constitution, an independent judiciary is essential, for it acts as a curb against the encroachment of government on individual rights and liberty. Under the constitutional provision for separation of powers, federal judges are not supposed to be subject to political influence in fulfilling the court's role. A federal judge, who serves with life tenure on good behavior, can wield great power; which is why it is important to appoint "qualified" persons and not just political ideologues to the federal bench. That is why federal judges are appointed by the President subject to confirmation by the Senate and not elected.

Our courts are the great levelers, for all men stand equal before the law. But while we are a nation of laws and not men, it is men who administer the laws and mete out justice. Most state judges are elected officials, and others appointed by executive authority; and there are few whose judgments are not influenced by politics, whether it be associated with getting reelected or avoiding impeachment from office. To make federal judges accountable in this way would turn the judiciary into courts of popular appeal, which is not what the framers of the Constitution had in mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:12 AM
 
994 posts, read 723,175 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Interesting to me is that if this is struck down, we get closer to the liberal dream of single payer health care. This larded law is basically built to protect he health insurance industry. We either proceed with the current system without the mandate, which would devastate the industry, or we go back to the single payer model of socialized health care, which the people want, but the GOP does not.

Frankly, I am all in for the single payer model. Plenty of other successful countries do it, and it takes a heavy burden off their companies. So, the SCOTUS is basically saying the private model suggested by the GOP in the 1990s, and adopted by Obama with modifications, is not tenable. Fine. Time to join the rest of the civilized world with single payer.

I think the SCOTUS is smart enough to see these consequences, and so will not rule against it. It is the biggest boon to the health insurance industry in our history. Now that I think of it, I hope they do turn it down!

*** As an aside, I enjoyed listening to the justices debate this. It is a very important question for our country, and it is cool to have these discussion. That is, if people are really thinking about the implications of this issue.
Well the implications are disastrous if Obamacare stands. But speaking of that, it would be interesting to know how many liberals:

1. geniuinely believe Obama's rhetoric about keeping your insurance plan and lowered costs
2. know the rhetoric is false but believe the expanded coverage to uninsured people justifies the lies and cost overruns
3. know the whole thing is a disaster but don't care because they think any step towards more government control over healthcare is better

You know, if the GOP doesn't want socialized medicine and the people voted for the GOP in record-breaking numbers in 2010, then it's pretty silly to say the people want socialized medicine.

Amidst all your arguments for why Obamacare is good, ou're missing the point that we have a constitution in this country. They're not deciding on whether or not the mandate is a good or bad idea. Their job is not to decide whether something is legal, not whether it is good. It does not matter how many other countries have single payer, or what a burden insurance is on companies, or anything else. If the constitution doesn't allow it, then it doesn't allow it. End of story. Unless you support judicial activisim to subvert the constitution.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,779,445 times
Reputation: 9399
If you are appointed to the Supreme Court...a tacit agreement is made..that you do what you are told by the ones who put you there...there is no "muscling" going on...just some mild resistance to authority...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:16 AM
 
Location: NC
1,672 posts, read 1,765,071 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I'm reminded of another great American fascist who bullied the Supreme Court to circumvent the Constitution, FDR.


Obama issues stern language on Supreme Court health care decision | The Ticket - Yahoo! News
Only muscle he "could" do is get re-elected and stack the bench( 3 justices may need replacements in the next 5 years). He can't do anything else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:21 AM
 
14,293 posts, read 9,642,560 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
Judicial activism? Oh the irony...
No kidding. Apparently it's not judicial activism if the SCOTUS creates law from the bench, but it is activism if they strike down a law.

Hey congress!! Why don't you try writing good law in the first place, and not subvert the legislative process with bribes, kickbacks, exclusions, secretive, closed door meetings, and then ram almost 3,000 pages of unread law down our throats.

If Obama wants to fundamentally change the relationship between the citizen and the federal government, we have an amendment process to the US Constitution, specifically made for that process.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,894,701 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kkaos2 View Post
Well the implications are disastrous if Obamacare stands. But speaking of that, it would be interesting to know how many liberals:

1. geniuinely believe Obama's rhetoric about keeping your insurance plan and lowered costs
2. know the rhetoric is false but believe the expanded coverage to uninsured people justifies the lies and cost overruns
3. know the whole thing is a disaster but don't care because they think any step towards more government control over healthcare is better

You know, if the GOP doesn't want socialized medicine and the people voted for the GOP in record-breaking numbers in 2010, then it's pretty silly to say the people want socialized medicine.

Amidst all your arguments for why Obamacare is good, ou're missing the point that we have a constitution in this country. They're not deciding on whether or not the mandate is a good or bad idea. Their job is not to decide whether something is legal, not whether it is good. It does not matter how many other countries have single payer, or what a burden insurance is on companies, or anything else. If the constitution doesn't allow it, then it doesn't allow it. End of story. Unless you support judicial activisim to subvert the constitution.
1) What leads you to dispute CBO estimates that conclude that the ACA lowers medical costs?

2) Why do you call the ACA "socialized medicine?" Medical care is provided by private doctors and the insurance is provided by private insurance companies. So, where is the socialized part? Government has been regulating insurance fr generations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,234,266 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv View Post
Actually, you are wrong. There is plenty of precedent to pass this legislation.
Precedents for upholding health care law - CNN.com
That article was written BEFORE Tuesday's hearings. I have a feeling that the writer might feel less confident today than when he wrote that article, based on the question and answer session. The government's arguments against the points raised by the article were not even brought up and/or were very ill defended. The SG did a horrendous job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,030,245 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
The POTUS nominates every single member of the SCOTUS, nobody else has any control over the SCOTUS other than the President.
Well, that made complete sense... if the President has a time machine.

Otherwise, not so much.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,785,573 times
Reputation: 7801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I'm reminded of another great American fascist who bullied the Supreme Court to circumvent the Constitution, FDR.


Obama issues stern language on Supreme Court health care decision | The Ticket - Yahoo! News
Welcome to the United Dictatorship of America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:54 AM
 
994 posts, read 723,175 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Then, why is it that government funded health care all over Europe is 1/2 the cost of private insurance in the U.S.?
People will charge for their goods and services what the market will bear. When government floods the market with tens of billions of dollars, the costs go up. It's supply and demand. Now, in Europe the governments often control the medical facilities, in which case they can control the supply. Or they will pay for care, but they decide when and whether you get it, not you. Again it's supply and demand - this time controlling costs through arbitrarily restricting either supply or demand.

So the answer is simple - government funded healthcare is 1/2 the cost of American private insurance because the government rations it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top