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Old 04-05-2012, 07:46 AM
 
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A federal judge in San Diego refused Wednesday to block the Marine Corps from holding a hearing Thursday in the case of a sergeant accused of making improper "political statements" about President Obama. The board will recommend to Marine brass whether Stein should be discharged, possibly with an other-than-honorable status...

Stein...is accused of making statements criticizing the commander-in-chief on a Facebook page titled Armed Forces Tea Party and thus undermining "good order and discipline." Among other comments, Stein said he would not follow an illegal order to kill Americans or take away their weapons.

The ACLU joined with the conservative United States Justice Foundation in seeking to have the hearing canceled.

“The military may be different from the civilian world, but it’s not exempt from the 1st Amendment,” said David Loy, legal director for ACLU of San Diego and Imperial Counties. “Sgt. Stein didn’t say anything for which the Marine Corps has any right to punish him."


Judge rejects bid by ACLU, others to block hearing for Marine in Obama case - latimes.com
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:49 AM
 
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For reference, it's this Marine:

Marine's speak out against O'bama, will defy orders!
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
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The legal director of the ACLU in San Diego is wrong about one thing, retired members of the military drawing pay, as well as active-duty service members, are subject to the UCMJ. Article 88 of the UCMJ makes it a crime for a commissioned officer to use "contemptuous words" against the President, Vice-President, Secretary of Defense, and other specified high government officials. Article 134 of the UCMJ makes it a crime for enlisted personnel to use similar wording. The words have to be "to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, or conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces."
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:25 AM
 
14,920 posts, read 10,557,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
The legal director of the ACLU in San Diego is wrong about one thing, retired members of the military drawing pay, as well as active-duty service members, are subject to the UCMJ. Article 88 of the UCMJ makes it a crime for a commissioned officer to use "contemptuous words" against the President, Vice-President, Secretary of Defense, and other specified high government officials. Article 134 of the UCMJ makes it a crime for enlisted personnel to use similar wording. The words have to be "to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, or conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces."
If that is the case, and I have no reason to distrust you, then I'd imagine the ACLU views the prohibition of any military member - retired or active - from speaking "contemptuous words" against the President, etc. to be an overly broad violation of the free speech rights under the 1st Amendment.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
20,592 posts, read 14,908,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
A federal judge in San Diego refused Wednesday to block the Marine Corps from holding a hearing Thursday in the case of a sergeant accused of making improper "political statements" about President Obama. The board will recommend to Marine brass whether Stein should be discharged, possibly with an other-than-honorable status...

Stein...is accused of making statements criticizing the commander-in-chief on a Facebook page titled Armed Forces Tea Party and thus undermining "good order and discipline." Among other comments, Stein said he would not follow an illegal order to kill Americans or take away their weapons.

The ACLU joined with the conservative United States Justice Foundation in seeking to have the hearing canceled.

“The military may be different from the civilian world, but it’s not exempt from the 1st Amendment,” said David Loy, legal director for ACLU of San Diego and Imperial Counties. “Sgt. Stein didn’t say anything for which the Marine Corps has any right to punish him."


Judge rejects bid by ACLU, others to block hearing for Marine in Obama case - latimes.com

Good.
A few things:
1) He flagrantly violated the UCMJ
2) He flagrantly violated earlier orders (in 2010) to take down this page
3) He used his work computer to spew his nonsense
4) He represented his opinion as that of the armed forces and not a personal opinion.

The 1st amendment does not preclude an employer from terminating an employee who violates the code of conduct specific to his/her workplace.
Sure, you can say whatever you want, just don't be surprised if there are consequences.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:35 PM
 
1,759 posts, read 1,675,821 times
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Default Less-than-honorable discharge for Marine for FB criticism of Obama

Quote:
A Camp Pendleton Marine who criticized President Obama on Facebook is facing an "other than honorable discharge," a move his lawyer said is an infringement on the tea party supporter's right to free speech.

...according to his attorney, Stein never ran into any trouble until last month, when he wrote: "Screw Obama. I will not follow all orders from him."
Federal Judge Rejects Marine Injunction to Stop Discharge - ABC News

Of course, being ABC News, the article has to point out that he is a Tea Party supporter. Not that it should make a difference, at least
not in the very first sentence of the news story.
But we don't expect less from the left-wing MSM.

Anyway, I don't know what to think about this because on one hand there is freedom of speech
and on the other, B.O. is technically (though ridiculously) the Commander in Chief of the military and is Stein's highest boss.
As a military member, you follow orders from your superiors.

Sure, it's silly that underqualified Community Organizer B.O. would have half a clue as far as what to do with the military
(and no, the OBL strike
means nothing because B.O. could only even attempt to carry that out
with extensive guidance from the actual military).
But we're talking about a boss, nonetheless.

Last edited by Alltheusernamesaretaken; 04-15-2012 at 02:44 PM..
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:37 PM
 
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There is nothing "tough" about this.

If he was in the private sector, and wrote the same of his direct boss, he would have been fired on the spot.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:42 PM
 
2,737 posts, read 3,976,437 times
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When a civilian joins the military, there are certain privileges he gives up - one of which is unlimited free speech. "Loose lips sink ships."

That said, if GWB was still President, most of those who are now condemning this Marine would be applauding him.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:43 PM
 
3,046 posts, read 2,610,233 times
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Yeah, I can't say that I disagree. You definitely need to watch what you post online nowadays.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:46 PM
 
29,519 posts, read 16,418,432 times
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Normally, in 6 months he will be-able to ask for his Honorable dis-charge.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/i...rms/dd0293.pdf

Block 5.
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