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Conservatives don't like the environment... that's a load of crap.
My wife is very conservative and I fall in between and consider myself an Independent. She barks at me constantly about recycling... She cares 100% more about the environment than 95% of the people I know.. You can't stereo type conservatives or liberals for that matter just because the political machines want you to!
Seriously, you can't simply cut a path down a political line and say this side is this and that side is that. Open your eyes and see what is really going on. Both sides are playing politics and if you believe any of the hype coming out of either side, you are simply a pawn in their game.
I don't think moderate republicans have always been antienvironment. Tom McCall in Oregon was instrumental in protecting the Oregon Coast from development. And Nixon helped launch the EPA and a number of other things.
I think the conservatives tend to abhor regulations generally. There is a prevailing view that the resource users will always regulate themselve most efficiently, the polluter will not pollute more than necessary, ranchers always knows best how to ranch, the logger how to log, the miner how to mine, etc. Abundant research and an array of Superfund sites coast to coast has shown these claims of self-policing users to be false. The desire to internalize the short-term profits and externalize the damage (or walk away completely) is overwhelming. Regulations are necessary.
I think the current climate is so juiced up with partisanship that almost any sort of environmental protection will be label ******* job killing, tree hugging mumbo jumbo. In the us vs. them world view, this is a "them" issue. But of course we all lose from a bad environment. It is another example of a self-defeating outcome of partisanship and self-deluding thinking.
This is actually one of the better posts in this thread.
You are correct about libertarians and conservatives generally distrusting regulations. Now, I do certainly agree that some regulations are needed, that's not to say that some can't be scrapped or altered. There is such a thing as diminishing returns. Like how many environmentalists demand lower emissions limits regardless even if the air quality in an area is generally considered to be safe. That has little to do with concern for the environment and more do with "Anything people do to the planet is bad". Nor is it wrong to point out that government agencies (such as the EPA) often have a habit of trying to expand their power and have tendency to recommend more regulation and more funding (when was the last time you have ever seen a government agency submit a report saying they are given more power than they should have and they have more funding than they need?).
While there do seem to be some conservatives and libertarians that actually seem to hate the environment and nature, most generally don't. Keep in mind that a lot of conservationist groups were founded by hunters. Ducks Unlimited comes to mind. Now, hunting isn't necessarily a conservative activity, but it's generally not one associated with liberals either. Ted Nugent is also someone who has voiced concerns over some environmental issues (particularly land conservation, ground water pollution, and deforestation) and he is as liberal as Naomi Klein is conservative.
But you are certainly right. The environment effects us all (by definition) and showing some type of respect for the environment and placing some limits on human activity will benefit all of us over all.
I'm very proud of all the Conservative posters who recycle and stuff, but the truth is that Republican politicians are much more likely to vote against bills that are good for the environment.
I see the dichotomy between right and left as a cultural issue. The Right wants to control the environment by deciding what to exploit and what to save. I believe this is a result of the conception that "Man has Dominion over the Earth...". This leads to a take what we need first and deal with the consequence later if at all attitudes. They would prefer to lay waste and let somebody else clean up the mess.
The left has a completely different concept. They view the environment as a source of sustenance that must be harmed as little as possible. They do not believe that man has dominion over the planet but are here at the planet's environmental sufferance. The left would rather investigate the results of an environmentally significant action before any irreparable changes are made. The left is willing to pay for waiting and then charge the perpetrator of the action for any potential damages before the damage is actually done. They want the cleanup paid beforehand because they have experiences many cases where the perpetrators legally escaped their responsibility for cleaning up their mess.
In the short term the Right is correct in their assumption that the environment will tolerate any insult they might do and they have no financial responsibility cleaning up the mess. They are very happy to externalize this cost so long as they and their friends do not suffer. This is not surprising as paying for cleanup will lower the value of the action and the profit. Taking an action that reduces potential profit is an ‘original sin” to the worshipers of Mammon.
The Left is correct in their assumption that some environmental insults are either economically or spiritually intolerable. Destroying a water supply by dumping raw sewage into a river is both so we have spent vast sums of money cleaning up our rivers. The original polluters have not paid for this cleanup. Dumping vast quantities of pollutant gasses, including Carbon Dioxide, into the atmosphere is considered to possibly doing irreparable harm to the planetary ecosystem and thus should be minimized through technology enforced by regulation. To the left it is better to avoid the damage first instead of having to repair it later.
The first example is having somebody else clean up your room for free and the latter is having Mommy tell you to not make a mess in the first place. Of course any child would prefer the former and fight the latter as hard as possible. In essence the environmental battle is just the old fight between an undisciplined boy children resisting mothers’ admonition to behave. The right extends this fight to include an assault on women as well as nature. Both must be controlled if the whining obnoxious brats are to be free. We, the people that pay for the cleanup, disagree.
I rest my case, many idiots on the left do nothing but lie about anyone and anything they can in order to further their political agenda.
More proof of my statement even after numerous examples have been posted proving both of you wrong.
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Originally Posted by florida.bob
Errr, Conservatives don't conserve, they exploit and call conserving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE
I'm very proud of all the Conservative posters who recycle and stuff, but the truth is that Republican politicians are much more likely to vote against bills that are good for the environment.
I see a gigantic stereotype here. Basically you say that conservatives don't care for the environment and I find that to be just utterly false. What we don't care for is the government imposing more controls and regulations on people and businesses just to have control.
It reminds me of the book "A Listening Walk" by Gene Hill. He was a hunter and fisherman. He spent countless hours out in the field trying to improve habitat and at times was chased down and harassed by "environmentalist whackos". The difference? He was actually doing something to preserve habitat and the environment while the whackos expected someone from the government to do it or impose a law or regulation saying what should be done. It reminds me of the events at a hunting club where I got my certification and at my church where we did drives to help people. As part of the Boy Scouts (you know, that evil oppressive organization), we used to work recycles newspapers every week too.
So it is kind of like the fact that liberals consider themselves more charitable since they support a government that is supposed to take care of people whereas conservatives actually donate time and money to charity to help take care of people.
Errr, Conservatives don't conserve, they exploit and call conserving.
Crap, Crap, Mega Crap.
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