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Old 04-07-2012, 10:45 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,432,117 times
Reputation: 3324

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Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
You, Bentbow, understand this. I just wish the other people on this board - Modeer, CavScoutWife - who have little to no idea what it means to serve (or in CavScoutWife's case easy as pie term of service) would understand this. Oh well their ignorance is our bliss, as they say.
Prove where I said that, or you are lying to suit your own needs.

 
Old 04-07-2012, 10:47 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,432,117 times
Reputation: 3324
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl View Post
i was pretty sure that i remembered you serving in the corps from the military forum, but i wasn't positive. either way, even if you weren't prior service, just being married to a serviceman is enough to spin you up on the culture and the mindset.

semper fi, chica!
Yup, that was me, lol.

Semper Gumby, brother!
 
Old 04-07-2012, 10:47 PM
 
1,482 posts, read 1,765,225 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl View Post
it doesn't really have anything to do with the safety of the troops––generally speaking. it is more about, as i mentioned earlier, a compliance with laws based upon american civilization's understanding of ethics.

so, i couldn't refuse an order to go patrol a bomb-cluttered alleyway, just because i don't want to get blown up.

but i could refuse an order to push some civilian kid down that same alleyway.
To us that would be an illegal order.
An alley that may contain some risk, easy, tell the platoon commander, you go first boss and if they drop you we will be really cross with them.
 
Old 04-07-2012, 11:17 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,765,877 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzrugby View Post
To us that would be an illegal order.
which one? the suicidal trek down ambush alley, or sending the kid down the alley?

sending the kid down the alley is illegal for us too. but going down that alley yourself is sometimes necessary. in those situations, you suck it up and do it. you did sign up willingly for it after all.

Quote:
An alley that may contain some risk, easy, tell the platoon commander, you go first boss and if they drop you we will be really cross with them.
what i said above notwithstanding, there is some precedent for refusing stupid orders, whether they are illegal or not, and [s]pretty often[/s] occasionally, the officer or NCO that gave the stupid order is the one that gets in trouble, even if his troops were flagrantly disrespectful.

doesn't happen often, but i have seen it, especially when obeying the stupid order would end up negligently causing blue on blue casualties, get civilian allies hurt, expose your unit unnecessarily to the enemy, etc.

what it comes down to, at least in the combat environment, is that you are supposed to use your brain and accomplish the mission, normally with as few casualties as possible. i know that this goes against what some civilians think about military personnel, that they are brainwashed, broken, dispirited yes-men, but you are supposed to think quickly and effectively, and make split-second decisions in a way that saves lives and meets your objective.

that means that if you have to completely ignore your platoon commander's suicidal orders because there is a viable alternative that would get you all home in one piece and still accomplish the mission without problems, you do it. that officer can go complain to higher if he wants, but if he knows what's good for him, he'll accept the alternative route and learn something in the process.
 
Old 04-07-2012, 11:18 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,765,877 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzrugby View Post
To us that would be an illegal order.
which one? the suicidal trek down ambush alley, or sending the kid down the alley?

sending the kid down the alley is illegal for us too. but going down that alley yourself is sometimes necessary. in those situations, you suck it up and do it. you did sign up willingly for it after all.

Quote:
An alley that may contain some risk, easy, tell the platoon commander, you go first boss and if they drop you we will be really cross with them.
what i said above notwithstanding, there is some precedent for refusing stupid orders, whether they are illegal or not, and occasionally, the officer or NCO that gave the stupid order is the one that gets in trouble, even if his troops were flagrantly disrespectful.

doesn't happen often, but i have seen it, especially when obeying the stupid order would end up negligently causing blue on blue casualties, get civilian allies hurt, expose your unit unnecessarily to the enemy, etc.

what it comes down to, at least in the combat environment, is that you are supposed to use your brain and accomplish the mission, normally with as few casualties as possible. i know that this goes against what some civilians think about military personnel, that they are brainwashed, broken, dispirited yes-men, but you are supposed to think quickly and effectively, and make split-second decisions in a way that saves lives and meets your objective.

that means that if you have to completely ignore your platoon commander's suicidal orders because there is a viable alternative that would get you all home in one piece and still accomplish the mission without problems, you do it. that officer can go complain to higher if he wants, but if he knows what's good for him, he'll accept the alternative route and learn something in the process.
 
Old 04-08-2012, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,775 posts, read 9,190,242 times
Reputation: 4238
Oath Keepers » Blog Archive » Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey
 
Old 04-08-2012, 01:53 AM
 
1,482 posts, read 1,765,225 times
Reputation: 844

Interesting statement about foreign troops on US soil, should we allow US Marines to use our soil/airspace to get to the US Embassy in our country ?
If the answer is yes, should other countries have the right to have their troops in their Embassy in Washington DC ?
 
Old 04-08-2012, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,375 posts, read 2,575,926 times
Reputation: 1041
I'll just quote myself...again.

You've never served so don't you dare make any attempts at labeling the life style of the military. You have no idea what those men and women go through on a daily basis so you can sit here and be an armchair general without having to fight the good fight yourself. Take advantage of your freedoms paid by their blood.

Nice supporting Terrorism, Claud. Hope you're glad with being UnAmerican.
 
Old 04-08-2012, 09:41 AM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,429,934 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
I'll just quote myself...again.

You've never served so don't you dare make any attempts at labeling the life style of the military. You have no idea what those men and women go through on a daily basis so you can sit here and be an armchair general without having to fight the good fight yourself. Take advantage of your freedoms paid by their blood.

Nice supporting Terrorism, Claud. Hope you're glad with being UnAmerican.
Can you be anymore condescending and arrogant?

You think if someone hasn't walked your path, they can't see what the path is?

It's not nuclear fission technology.

Why didn't you re enlist, if your service is so critical to my freedom?

I'm embarrassed for your naivety.
 
Old 04-08-2012, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
28,356 posts, read 18,368,160 times
Reputation: 7510
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Why did he join the marines in the first place if he was going to disobey orders,?

I'm sure we can all tune into his brand of truth everyday at noon..


You do realize the UCMJ requires service members to disobey all illegal orders, right?
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