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Old 04-06-2012, 01:07 PM
 
51,465 posts, read 41,476,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
How exactly did taxpayers "pick up her tab?"

Taxpayers paid her consumer debts? Taxpayers paid her medical bills?

I see nothing that would indicate that taxpayes were on the hook for any of this.

Even more important, who's saying we shouldn't reform healthcare? No one that I can think of. Reform is necessary. Obamacare is not the answer.
She can't pay her medical bills so the cost will be passed along in terms of higher charges for people that can pay. Some of that will fall upon medicare, some of that will fall upon insured people like myself.

It's just like *leakage* at a store, they charge a bit higher to cover theft losses in addition to all other operational costs like rent, salaries.

Go check your auto insurance, you carre UIM (Uninsured Motorists Coverage) ? Why?
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:13 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 8,943,587 times
Reputation: 1860
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
You are catching on. Listen, you need to start earning more so as to pay more taxes, because I may need more Medical work done. So quit wasting time on the internet, and get to work.
Nah? I would rather do this. Much more fun plus work is fine. I hire good people so I don't have to do as much work yet stuff still gets done
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,243 posts, read 15,239,270 times
Reputation: 4583
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluv00 View Post
Nah? I would rather do this. Much more fun plus work is fine. I hire good people so I don't have to do as much work yet stuff still gets done
Oh, and while your at it, I need a Soc Sec raise also. Try to work that in too, OK.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:17 PM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,763,944 times
Reputation: 9381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
She can't pay her medical bills so the cost will be passed along in terms of higher charges for people that can pay. Some of that will fall upon medicare, some of that will fall upon insured people like myself.

It's just like *leakage* at a store, they charge a bit higher to cover theft losses in addition to all other operational costs like rent, salaries.

Go check your auto insurance, you carre UIM (Uninsured Motorists Coverage) ? Why?
Hospitals are the entities that absorb medical bills that can't be paid. They don't get to bill Medicare at higher rates just because they absorbed a large number of unpaid medical bills. Medicare has established reimbursement rates. They don't fluctuate just to accommodate or offset unpaid medical bills.

I'm not sure where you folks get the idea that Medicaid is impacted by unpaid medical bills.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 8,981,045 times
Reputation: 3073
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
If Mary Brown didn't use taxpayer funded services, then you didn't take a hit on your taxes through her use of medical care. Filing for bankruptcy does NOT mean you paid for it as a taxpayer. I'm not sure where you, or anyone else is coming up with this idea.

You're using a version of the multiplier effect on bankruptcy.....I don't think it logically applies....especially not in the case of such of this lady, whose medical bills were small. But I do understand your point as it applies to the macro.
The multiplier effect of bankruptcy does logically apply and it most certainly applies to the macro. Risk of default plus inflation is the entire idea behind charging interest. It is also is one of the things they teach you in accounting. As a business you have to assume that you are going to have to write off bad debt as a loss and adjust accordingly. Any business, or bank that offers lines of credit will charge some premium either in the form of interest, or on the price of a good/service to cancel out anticipated defaults.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:21 PM
 
10,115 posts, read 6,962,140 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
How exactly did taxpayers "pick up her tab?"

Taxpayers paid her consumer debts? Taxpayers paid her medical bills?

I see nothing that would indicate that taxpayes were on the hook for any of this.

Even more important, who's saying we shouldn't reform healthcare? No one that I can think of. Reform is necessary. Obamacare is not the answer.
When you file bankruptcy, the company you owe money to eats the cost. Then they pass it on to you and me with increased prices. I don't know about you, but I'm absolutely a taxpayer (as in I pay more personal income taxes than most people make). I'm paying for this woman's lack of personal responsibility, and I resent it.

If you don't think the health care reform act is the answer, just what would you propose instead? Don't bother telling me about being able to buy insurance across state lines--that would eliminate the thousands of mandates states have in place to force insurance companies to actually cover illnesses, and it's not a realistic or viable option. I'm not sure Obamacare is the answer either, but it's been the "republican plan" that was put forward as the "conservative" answer ever since the 90s. It's the least "big government" program that I've seen offered that might actually work--the other options are single payer or medicaid for all.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:25 PM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,763,944 times
Reputation: 9381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
The multiplier effect of bankruptcy does logically apply and it most certainly applies to the macro. Risk of default plus inflation is the entire idea behind charging interest. It is also is one of the things they teach you in accounting. As a business you have to assume that you are going to have to write off bad debt as a loss and adjust accordingly. Any business, or bank that offers lines of credit will charge some premium either in the form of interest, or on the price of a good/service to cancel out anticipated defaults.
Right. But, higher hospital rates don't drive the boat. Medicare reimbursement rates drive the boat. Doctor's and hospitals only get back what Medicaid will pay it for a particular service. Either they eat the remaining cost, or they try to recoup it from the patient. Either way, none of this impacts the taxpayer-funded Medicaid system.

What it DOES impact is other people's insurance premiums. Unpaid medical bills resort in higher costs per procedure, which are then passed along to the insured. To protect themselves, insurance companies have their own reimbursement rates. In the end, the hospital/doctor absorbs the unpaid medical more than anyone else.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:29 PM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 8,981,045 times
Reputation: 3073
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Right. But, higher hospital rates don't drive the boat. Medicare reimbursement rates drive the boat. Doctor's and hospitals only get back what Medicaid will pay it for a particular service. Either they eat the remaining cost, or they try to recoup it from the patient. Either way, none of this impacts the taxpayer-funded Medicaid system.

What it DOES impact is other people's insurance premiums. Unpaid medical bills resort in higher costs per procedure, which are then passed along to the insured. To protect themselves, insurance companies have their own reimbursement rates. In the end, the hospital/doctor absorbs the unpaid medical more than anyone else.
Yes they do. Hospitals and Doctors can refuse to take medicare. If medicare reimbursement were set so low that the cost of serving medicare clients was greater then the payment to hospitals and doctors hospitals and doctors just would not accept clients beyond what they had to under Reagancare. Thus medicare has to make its payments competitive relative to the number of clients it has in order to work at all and that bar goes up for every inefficiency like Mary Brown.

Hospitals and Doctors need not eat costs. They can just do this.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...medicare_N.htm
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:32 PM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,763,944 times
Reputation: 9381
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547 View Post
When you file bankruptcy, the company you owe money to eats the cost. Then they pass it on to you and me with increased prices. I don't know about you, but I'm absolutely a taxpayer (as in I pay more personal income taxes than most people make). I'm paying for this woman's lack of personal responsibility, and I resent it.

If you don't think the health care reform act is the answer, just what would you propose instead? Don't bother telling me about being able to buy insurance across state lines--that would eliminate the thousands of mandates states have in place to force insurance companies to actually cover illnesses, and it's not a realistic or viable option. I'm not sure Obamacare is the answer either, but it's been the "republican plan" that was put forward as the "conservative" answer ever since the 90s. It's the least "big government" program that I've seen offered that might actually work--the other options are single payer or medicaid for all.
Yes, the costs are passed on to you through higher costs. But they are not passed on to you as a taxpayer. There's a difference.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:53 PM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,763,944 times
Reputation: 9381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
Yes they do. Hospitals and Doctors can refuse to take medicare. If medicare reimbursement were set so low that the cost of serving medicare clients was greater then the payment to hospitals and doctors hospitals and doctors just would not accept clients beyond what they had to under Reagancare. Thus medicare has to make its payments competitive relative to the number of clients it has in order to work at all and that bar goes up for every inefficiency like Mary Brown.

Hospitals and Doctors need not eat costs. They can just do this.

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com
You're not even following your own point. You claim that bankruptcies pass along costs to taxpayers. That's not wholly accurate. Each bankruptcy is different. Then you said that those costs result in Medicaid costs being higher. That's not accurate either. Why? Because Medicaid reimburses doctors and hospitals at established rates. When a hospital eats the cost of unpaid medical bills, it cannot pass those costs along to Medicaid because Medicaid drives the boat through established reimbursement rates. You have not proven that Medicaid reimburses costs due to unpaid medical bills. You've simply shown that Medicaid will periodically assess its reimbursement structure to better accommodate hospital fee structures. There is no direct correlation to personal bankruptcy.

No one is arguing the point in the post above. I'm arguing your original point....which is that an unpaid medical bill results in a taxpayer cost when the person files for bankruptcy. That is not the case. As I said earlier, the macro *might* feel the pinch, but I haven't seen any data that suggests taxpayers are on the hook for those costs on the macro.
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