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Old 04-09-2012, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,226,607 times
Reputation: 4582

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I don't think American politics are any more partisan today than they were 200 years ago. Every POTUS election since the 2nd one has been a virtual blood bath of mud slinging non sense. The mud slinging just travels faster today than it did back then.

Also, you can directly tie the Civil War to the result of 1860 presidential election.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,763 posts, read 4,356,876 times
Reputation: 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reactionary View Post
Evenstar51 = "one party refusing to govern as they were elected to do"

You must be referring to the Democrat-controlled Senate, which has not passed a budget in more than two years, neglecting one of the most basic responsibilities of governance.

Wrong. I was referring to the GOP "welfare queens" who stated that their only job was to make Obama a "one-term president." They're still getting nice salaries, enjoying a type of health care that they've denied to other Americans, and taking lovely vacations...while the economy stumbles, the jobless rate vacillates and there are millions more suffering with either inadequate health insurance or none at all. That's a sweet "job" if you can get one.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:27 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,184,561 times
Reputation: 11619
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
I don't think American politics are any more partisan today than they were 200 years ago. Every POTUS election since the 2nd one has been a virtual blood bath of mud slinging non sense. The mud slinging just travels faster today than it did back then.

Also, you can directly tie the Civil War to the result of 1860 presidential election.
I believe there were also fistfights on the floor of the House before. Nowadays, shouting you lie is considered vile and nasty, where in the 1800s it was a bloody nose
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,763 posts, read 4,356,876 times
Reputation: 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
Funny! Dubya was the most "caustic" President of my lifetime!
I agree, and I ain't no spring chicken! Nixon may have been a crook and a bigot, but he didn't rend the fabric of American society the way GW and the K Street "boys" did.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:58 PM
 
1,482 posts, read 1,858,959 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciderman View Post
Now granted I don't know the detail of American politics but in reading some of your posts on other threads, they seem to reek hatred! You seem to hate , almost personally, who ever the 'other side' is. When we have an election I vote for one side or the other. I listen to their points of view and try to be reasonably thoughtful in who I vote for. I think most of the 85% who turn out to vote would do the same and there would be a small percentage who vote 'because their dad voted this way' . Even if the party I vote for doesn't win, and I may not like the way they want to go, I always assume it's a difference of opinion and it's their honest attempt to do the right thing not an attempt to 'screw' the population .
US elections seem money centred and very vitriolic. Am I right?
Greetings from Otago Ciderman.
First of all you have to realise what US conservatives would call extreme socialists we would call NZ right wingers.
The biggest difference is the idea of a fair go for all is not one that would cross the minds of US conservatives unlike NZ,Aus, Canada and the UK.
A kiwi would look at the US health care system and say why not Medicare for all, US conservatives rant that unless one is in one's sixties it is socialism and bad, and besides Insurance companies are owed.

I noticed US conservatives out of the US will run down Obama to strangers, we would stick up for either HM or our PM out of NZ be they Labour or National.

Oh, GOP political meetings are amusing, they go on about freedom, we take it for granted.

The hypocrisy of GOP types is amazing, there is a youngish right wing American in NZ who has just been given NZ citizenship and since his father has been laid off and has no health care he wants to get him into NZ to take advantage of our UHC.

A couple of books to read, one compares the social history of the USA versus NZ.
Here is a fair chunk of it

Fairness and Freedom: A History of Two Open Societies: New Zealand and the ... - David Hackett Fischer - Google Books

The other is this book, explains why those in US flyover country vote against their own economic interests, example the poorest county in the USA voted 80% for Bush.
Yes, no kiwi would find that rational.

What's The Matter With Kansas?: How Conservatives Won The Heart Of America - Thomas Frank - Google Books

Oh and this one.
Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War - Joe Bageant - Google Books
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Hawkes Bay NZ
104 posts, read 116,221 times
Reputation: 281
Thanks nzrugby, I'll keep an eye out for those, especially the first.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Normal
161 posts, read 180,246 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
You have the most caustic President of our lifetime regarding Obama.
Race bating, class warfare and so forth.
So you are a racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Can you tell me who it was who promised to transform America if elected? Can you tell me what he meant by that? I just read an article about that very thing and it seems that the transformation that man thinks was aimed at has to do with transforming our nation into a socialist haven. Look at what Obamacare has done so far and tell me how it isn't aimed at that socialist haven I mentioned.

I just read another article in which the writer quoted from a left leaning "friend" who sounded so much like so many on this forum sound. Same words and same ideas. I wonder who puts those words and ideas in the heads of many of those people. I know that not that many people can come up with the same words and terms without some help. Maybe you can explain some of this to me.
I would not waste my time explaining to you. It would take too much time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backspace View Post
To the OP, As an American who's spent time in NZ and love your country more than I can explain... please understand that we aren't all ignorant like some already in this thread.

I rest my case.
Yes, you make a strong case exhibiting bigotry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
And here you see a prime example of the hatred from the left. You try to ask a reasonable question and it's turned partisan.
It is nice that you consider trolling partisan.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:02 PM
LML
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,110 posts, read 8,120,136 times
Reputation: 5160
We didn't always behave this way. But a combination of media people who have made a very good living from dividing us one from another and well paid lobbyist who have purchased the souls of our elected officials have pretty well destroyed our once great republic.

My family has been in this country since long before it was a country but, if I were not so old, I'd seriously be looking for somewhere else to live now. It breaks my heart. I love my country and to watch it destroyed and sold off piece by piece is heartbreaking.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Central Illinois -
21,585 posts, read 14,377,430 times
Reputation: 14717
I'm with you LML, but unlike you, I am planning on making my escape in the next 13 years, if this country holds out that long. NZ would be an excellent choice, but a tad remote for my taste, I would be happy with Canada or anywhere in Europe. The idea of moving away from the extreme rightwing/fascism that has gotten a foot hold in this country is my greatest motivation, and I also see things getting much worse in this country. The wealthy elite, and their useful rightwing idiots in the Tea Party, are plunging this country into Third World status, a nation of overflowing prisons, unemployed, and working poor.

When its time to retire, it will be time to move.

(BTW, "What's The Matter With Kansas?" is already a classic when it comes to political themed books)
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Boise
4,425 posts, read 5,278,667 times
Reputation: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciderman View Post
Now granted I don't know the detail of American politics but in reading some of your posts on other threads, they seem to reek hatred! You seem to hate , almost personally, who ever the 'other side' is. When we have an election I vote for one side or the other. I listen to their points of view and try to be reasonably thoughtful in who I vote for. I think most of the 85% who turn out to vote would do the same and there would be a small percentage who vote 'because their dad voted this way' . Even if the party I vote for doesn't win, and I may not like the way they want to go, I always assume it's a difference of opinion and it's their honest attempt to do the right thing not an attempt to 'screw' the population .
US elections seem money centred and very vitriolic. Am I right?
you are right! lol
it's shameful.. and absolutely disgusting most of the time
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