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In other news, turns out the latino peruvian Zimmerman is also part black.
[URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425"]George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting | Reuters[/URL]
*Anxiously awaiting sanctimonious screeds from enraged Trayvon apologists about how blacks can be racist too*
This case is a joke, folks. I'm honestly tired of discussing it.
As I've written (maybe 100 times) you can racially profile someone without being a racist. I haven't really heard much about the race issue in the news for weeks, only on internet blogs and message boards.
I also clearly remember during the first Sanford rally held by Sharpton, Trayvon Martin's mother saying to the crowd "This is not about white or black, it's about right and wrong." She said the same thing in New York.
[url=http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCABRE82K1H520120322]Parents of slain Florida teen speak at New York rally | Top News | Reuters[/url]
"This is not about a black and white thing. This is about a wrong and right thing," said Fulton, her voice quivering with emotion.
As I've written (maybe 100 times) you can racially profile someone without being a racist. I haven't really heard much about the race issue in the news for weeks, only on internet blogs and message boards.
I also clearly remember during the first Sanford rally held by Sharpton, Trayvon Martin's mother saying to the crowd "This is not about white or black, it's about right and wrong." She said the same thing in New York.
"This is not about a black and white thing. This is about a wrong and right thing," said Fulton, her voice quivering with emotion.
You must have skipped over the use of the racially-loaded term "profiled" in the affidavit.
This whole case started as a narrative about white vs. black racism, you cannot escape that, whatever any individual person says or thinks. The impetus for the witch hunt against Zimmerman, which directly led to his political prosecution, is based on race. The racial lynch mob does not give a rat's behind about black-on-black "profiling," and you know it. If the media hadn't lied, and the facts we now know were public (including Zimmerman's race), this never would have happened.
BTW, Dershowitz has continued excoriating the prosecution in this case, and is saying he thinks the prosecutor should be lawyering up against possible criminal charges against her. He also says the elements of second degree murder aren't even present in the affidavit, even taking their lies at face value.
You must have skipped over the use of the racially-loaded term "profiled" that the state used in the affidavit.
This whole case started as a narrative about white vs. black racism, you cannot escape that, whatever any individual person says or thinks. The impetus for the witch hunt against Zimmerman, which directly led to his political prosecution, is based on race. The racial lynch mob does not give a rat's behind about black-on-black "profiling," and you know it. If the media hadn't lied, and the facts we now know were public (including Zimmerman's race), this never would have happened.
I do agree that this became a media circus which caused emotions to explode, and both sides added fuel to the fire. I heard a lot of "facts" that turned out to be false. Still, there is no question that the investigation was handled poorly and did not get the attention every homicide should receive, especially when an unarmed 17 year old is killed in the community he was visiting. It was the handling of the case that put it under the spotlight, not the shooting itself.
There is no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman saw a young, Black male and immediately went after him because he figured he was going to rob someone. I always say "we don't know what was in his head" which is true. However, he started the 911 call, as he began many previous calls, by saying, "We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy." Then he goes on to say, "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about."
What is suspicious about a guy walking about? How did he look like he was up to no good? He said "I think he's Black." Why? He said he saw him clearly enough to know he was up to no good and looked suspicious enough to call the cops! Several residents, even people who liked Zimmerman, said he was obsessed with looking out for Blacks. A couple of neighbors said he repeatedly sent emails warning residents to be on watch for Black males walking in the community and to call the police.
If you want justice, then we are both on the same side. If you think Zimmerman is completely innocent, then we're not. I'm not saying he murdered Martin intentionally, but he is the cause of his death. I don't know what happened that night after the 911 call ended and neither do you.
You must have skipped over the use of the racially-loaded term "profiled" in the affidavit.
This whole case started as a narrative about white vs. black racism, you cannot escape that, whatever any individual person says or thinks. The impetus for the witch hunt against Zimmerman, which directly led to his political prosecution, is based on race. The racial lynch mob does not give a rat's behind about black-on-black "profiling," and you know it. If the media hadn't lied, and the facts we now know were public (including Zimmerman's race), this never would have happened.
BTW, Dershowitz has continued excoriating the prosecution in this case, and is saying he thinks the prosecutor should be lawyering up against possible criminal charges against her. He also says the elements of second degree murder aren't even present in the affidavit, even taking their lies at face value.
LOL I love being right, I said this days ago. She is going to end up like the Duke Lacrosse lawyer.
Quote:
“If I were this prosecutor, I’d be hiring a lawyer at this point,” Dershowitz said of Angela Cory, the Florida state attorney and special prosecutor who Gov. Rick Scott appointed to handle the case.
I do agree that this became a media circus which caused emotions to explode, and both sides added fuel to the fire. I heard a lot of "facts" that turned out to be false. Still, there is no question that the investigation was handled poorly and did not get the attention every homicide should receive, especially when an unarmed 17 year old is killed in the community he was visiting. It was the handling of the case that put it under the spotlight, not the shooting itself.
There is no doubt in my mind that Zimmerman saw a young, Black male and immediately went after him because he figured he was going to rob someone. I always say "we don't know what was in his head" which is true. However, he started the 911 call, as he began many previous calls, by saying, "We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy." Then he goes on to say, "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about."
What is suspicious about a guy walking about? How did he look like he was up to no good? He said "I think he's Black." Why? He said he saw him clearly enough to know he was up to no good and looked suspicious enough to call the cops! Several residents, even people who liked Zimmerman, said he was obsessed with looking out for Blacks. A couple of neighbors said he repeatedly sent emails warning residents to be on watch for Black males walking in the community and to call the police.
If you want justice, then we are both on the same side. If you think Zimmerman is completely innocent, then we're not. I'm not saying he murdered Martin intentionally, but he is the cause of his death. I don't know what happened that night after the 911 call ended and neither do you.
He was answering the dispatcher's question as to his race, you realize that right? What was he supposed to do, lie and pretend he didn't know?
And apparently Zimmerman's instincts as to what is suspicious are pretty spot-on, considering he correctly id'd a burglar just a couple of weeks before!
What is suspicious about a guy standing in the rain looking at houses in a neighborhood that has had a rash of recent break-ins, who runs as soon as he notices he's being watched? Who later bashes the guy's head in, breaks his nose, and it turns out he's been suspended multiple times, including one time where they found burglary tools in his backpack? And he may have recently assaulted a bus driver, and dealt codeine according to his facebook and twitter? Sheesh. I know this may come as a shock, but Trayvon really may have been up to no good that night, which is why he freaked, ran, and then stuck around to confront Zimmerman once he realized he wasn't a cop.
He told people to be on the lookout for black males because....black males were the suspects in the rash of recent break-ins. There's nothing scandalous about that. His black neighbor admitted as much.
Being the cause of something does not mean you are guilty. Causation goes a million ways, and points to a million different people. Legal guilt only exists when the right kind of cause, coupled with the right state of mind, occurs. The fact you say we don't know what happened after the non-emergency (why do people keep saying 911?) call ended means legally you think he should be free. Dershowitz has reiterated this point, as have I. Ambiguity always runs in the defendant's favor. Lack of evidence goes in the defendant's favor. If your answer is "we don't know what happened, he *could* have done something bad" he walks, end of story. As Dershowitz also pointed out, justice is not for the "victim" of the homicide, but for the defendant and society. Justice means applying the law, which requires proof that Zimmerman did something illegal, not speculation that he may have.
In short, until we see very solid proof that Zimmerman initiated the violence then he is legally innocent. Thinking he was dumb to get out of the car (which he had a right to do) doesn't cut it. Thinking it was rude that he kept an eye on Trayvon (which he had a legal right to do) doesn't cut it. Thinking man that guy shouldn't have had a gun doesn't cut it. Outrage that a kid is dead does not cut it.
Only proof that Zimmerman illegally initiated a violent altercation cuts it. That is justice.
Last edited by needTXinfo; 04-25-2012 at 05:40 PM..
He was answering the dispatcher's question as to his race, you realize that right? What was he supposed to do, lie and pretend he didn't know?
And apparently Zimmerman's instincts as to what is suspicious are pretty spot-on, considering he correctly id'd a burglar just a couple of weeks before!
What is suspicious about a guy standing in the rain looking at houses in a neighborhood that has had a rash of recent break-ins, who runs as soon as he notices he's being watched? Who later bashes the guy's head in, breaks his nose, and it turns out he's been suspended multiple times, including one time where they found burglary tools in his backpack? And he may have recently assaulted a bus driver, and dealt codeine according to his facebook and twitter? Sheesh. I know this may come as a shock, but Trayvon really may have been up to no good that night, which is why he freaked, ran, and then stuck around to confront Zimmerman once he realized he wasn't a cop.
He told people to be on the lookout for black males because....black males were the suspects in the rash of recent break-ins. There's nothing scandalous about that. His black neighbor admitted as much.
Being the cause of something does not mean you are guilty. Causation goes a million ways, and points to a million different people. Legal guilt only exists when the right kind of cause, coupled with the right state of mind, occurs. The fact you say we don't know what happened after the non-emergency (why do people keep saying 911?) call ended means legally you think he should be free. Dershowitz has reiterated this point, as have I. Ambiguity always runs in the defendant's favor. Lack of evidence goes in the defendant's favor. If your answer is "we don't know what happened, he *could* have done something bad" he walks, end of story. As Dershowitz also pointed out, justice is not for the "victim" of the homicide, but for the defendant and society. Justice means applying the law, which requires proof that Zimmerman did something illegal, not speculation that he may have.
In short, until we see very solid proof that Zimmerman initiated the violence then he is legally innocent. Thinking he was dumb to get out of the car (which he had a right to do) doesn't cut it. Thinking it was rude that he kept an eye on Trayvon (which he had a legal right to do) doesn't cut it. Thinking man that guy shouldn't have had a gun doesn't cut it. Outrage that a kid is dead does not cut it.
Only proof that Zimmerman illegally initiated a violent altercation cuts it. That is justice.
One would think that there would be, especially if they were as close as Zimmerman claims. And after posting in all 5 threads there have been about this tragedy, I can honestly tell you that some posters have made me question the existence of human decency. Some are rejoicing that "one more thug" is dead, but the vast majority of them are men. Women tend to see Trayvon as a kid, and show much more compassion.
I've noticed that as well, it's really disturbing and I'm starting the think that it's not just a few people on a message board that feel that way.
There's something else about this case that is bothering me....why would a person with a gun be screaming for help?? And if it was Zimmerman that was screaming, why didn't he indicate that he had a gun or that it was being wrestled away from him??
I've noticed that as well, it's really disturbing and I'm starting the think that it's not just a few people on a message board that feel that way.
There's something else about this case that is bothering me....why would a person with a gun be screaming for help?? And if it was Zimmerman that was screaming, why didn't he indicate that he had a gun or that it was being wrestled away from him??
What do you mean why would he scream for help? He was getting the crap beat out of him. And to whom should he have related the information about the gun - the guy beating him?
You're not entirely level-headed in that sort of situation.
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I know this may come as a shock, but Trayvon really may have been up to no good that night, which is why he freaked, ran, and then stuck around to confront Zimmerman once he realized he wasn't a cop.