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I'm not even sure it matters who started it. You have the right to defend yourself, even if you start the fight. So are folks telling me you start a fight someone bashes your head in and because you started the fight you can do nothing to stop your head from being bashed in?
You're just supposed to accept your eventual death because you started the fight?
I believe there's a feeling that if you start a fight, tough, take your beating like a man or woman, you deserve what you get. That's not Legal-think, but has a certain fairness or rough justice to it.
The problem with your take is that Zimmerman told the non-emergency dispatch that Trayvon was running. So Trayvon was clearly aware that Zimmerman was watching him from his car. If he was merely scared, he would have gone home, run out of the neighborhood, or called 911. He had a hands-free headset, it would have been very simple to call 911 while running.
The timeline just doesn't add up. Look at wagist.come for a thorough breakdown based on the phone calls to police dispatch and the cell records. Trayvon had literally minutes between the time when Zimmerman told police dispatch he lost sight of Trayvon and when the fight actually started. It doesn't make sense that Trayvon would have hung around if he were scared. It makes much more sense that a kid with a recent history of aggressive violence (and yes, a statement on Twitter from his brother that he "swung on a bus driver" is darn good evidence of Trayvon's violent ways, as is the fact that Trayvon reffed illegal school fights, as evidenced from his youtube account) would try to jump some dude he thought was eyeing him.
At any rate, you cannot honestly tell me at this point you think it's beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started the fight. The most you could possibly say is "we do not know," in which case the state lacked the probable cause necessary under FL self defense law to issue an indictment.
Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman was calling the police. He was talking on the phone to his girlfriend. All of a sudden, someone posts that he was using a hands free set. That is something I hadn't read before, and I think the poster is assUMING. The gf's account is that the last thing she heard was someone being pushed against a fence and the phone being dropped.
As for Trayvon's alleged history of violence, he has no record, he was not susupended from school for any violent offenses, and if domestic violence and assualt on a police officer can be considered "run of the mill" and "somewhat mild", certainly swinging at a bus driver is in the same category.
Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman was calling the police. He was talking on the phone to his girlfriend. All of a sudden, someone posts that he was using a hands free set. That is something I hadn't read before, and I think the poster is assUMING. The gf's account is that the last thing she heard was someone being pushed against a fence and the phone being dropped.
As for Trayvon's alleged history of violence, he has no record, he was not susupended from school for any violent offenses, and if domestic violence and assualt on a police officer can be considered "run of the mill" and "somewhat mild", certainly swinging at a bus driver is in the same category.
All of TM problems in school (you know - all of them) and incident w/bus driver makes him a PUNK IMO plain and simple.Tired of hearing this pure angel theory. GF statement: about a fence, anyone check to see if there was even a fence nearby?
Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman was calling the police. He was talking on the phone to his girlfriend. All of a sudden, someone posts that he was using a hands free set. That is something I hadn't read before, and I think the poster is assUMING. The gf's account is that the last thing she heard was someone being pushed against a fence and the phone being dropped.
As for Trayvon's alleged history of violence, he has no record, he was not susupended from school for any violent offenses, and if domestic violence and assualt on a police officer can be considered "run of the mill" and "somewhat mild", certainly swinging at a bus driver is in the same category.
Here's the gf's quote--- "Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell."
I don't know anything about cell phones. Does her saying 'the head set' fell mean it was a hands fee phone ?
'Somebody pushing Trayvon' is her conclusion. I haven't listened to/seen her full statement. Did she mention a fence ?
I think the judge understood that looking at a cop the wrong way, asking why you're being arrested, can lead to crazy charges.
Maybe I have missed any posts(maybe lots of them?) concerning this but hasn't anybody considered that Zimmerman may have had his gun out when approaching Trayvon Martin and that may have caused the kid to attack him?
Was it already out while "his head was being bashed'" or did he have to have the presence of mind and physical ability to get it from wherever it was?
Are you serious? What kind of unarmed idiot runs up to someone and attacks when he sees the person has a gun? Oh, I know.....the Darwin Award winner of the month!
When dealing with cases like this it is important to confine opinions to the facts as they have been released either in the media or in court, preferably in court.
There is nothing to indicate that Zimmerman's gun was "out" before the fight. You don't get to bring in opinions that are not based on any facts and think you won't be called out for it.
Shhhhhhhhhhhh. It's all the anti-Zimm people have. They read their little computers and can't comprehend, yet go around spewing more nonsense based on the nonsense they read and so forth and so forth.
Here's the gf's quote--- "Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell."
I don't know anything about cell phones. Does her saying 'the head set' fell mean it was a hands fee phone ?
'Somebody pushing Trayvon' is her conclusion. I haven't listened to/seen her full statement. Did she mention a fence ?
I think the judge understood that looking at a cop the wrong way, asking why you're being arrested, can lead to crazy charges.
OK, I missed that about the headset. I did read something, somewhere in one of these threads, about a fence. I doubt I could ever find it again.
GZ did more than "look at a cop the wrong way" and you know it. The report, as posted here is that he "pushed him and then the officer identified himself. Zimmerman continued his aggressive behavior and shouted "I don't care who the hell you are. F-you." " He also committed domestic violence against his girlfriend, which one of his supporters on here has described as "placing her on a couch/bed to calm her down". That is not the type of thing you get a restraining order for, sorry. It also sounds very demeaning to the woman.
LOL!
This is not court and while I have not been reading about this on C_D in any dedictated manner ,I'd say that a great deal of what I have read is nothing but opinion and speculation(which is all I was asking for)
Carry on......I'll try real hard to discern which posts are opinion and which are fact.
Edited to amend....I was not asking opinion.I was asking if it had been ascertained and brought up?
Look we all have our opinions but most of us who have posting on this matter for some time have based our opinions on information released in the media or in court. I may disagree with them but JustNancy and Katiana for example have shared opinions that support a conviction based on info released.
Opinions are ok that's what we are sharing but forming opinions on make believe facts that don't even make sense is not cool. You will be called out for it.
Look we all have our opinions but most of us who have posting on this matter for some time have based our opinions on information released in the media or in court. I may disagree with them but JustNancy and Katiana for example have shared opinions that support a conviction based on info released.
Opinions are ok that's what we are sharing but forming opinions on make believe facts that don't even make sense is not cool. You will be called out for it.
When did I EVER say that? Please provide proof, not your opinion that something I said actually meant something else!
When did I EVER say that? Please provide proof, not your opinion that something I said actually meant something else!
So you don't support a conviction? Oh well that's what I've concluded from your posts. I stand corrected then.
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