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Old 04-25-2012, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Buda
97 posts, read 209,900 times
Reputation: 112
Three Wolves in Snow,

I thought I did a decent job of explaining my logic but I will try again.

First off your logic to mine doesn't make sense. You claim it's like I think if I continue to walk forward I might end up where I want. The problem with that is in your example it's just me. Well duh if it was just me and I thought I was going the wrong direction then sure I would like any sane person turn around immediately and walk the other direction but, it is not just me it is millions of people.

We could spend many many years fighting the left at every step trying to right the ship. What is better spending 20 years with half the people on a boat fighting the other half about the best way to turn it around. Or spending 4 years getting closer to the cliff and increasing the chance that the other half of the boat will spend the next 4 years helping you turn the boat and move it in the right direction?

Also Cunucu Beach you state that if Obama gets 4 more years it would be the end of America. My reply to that is.. Would it be so bad? I'm thinking that is by far the quickest way to get were we want to go. It isn't like America would just fall into the sea never to be seen again. We would all still be here. So if the Union dissolved most likely we would all end up in pockets or gathering to the areas where other people that share our views are. For instance I would be in Texas. We would most certainly form some sort of system here that was to the right of where America is now and boom I have a new America just much smaller. Unless some other country just decides to invade us while we are broke........
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Land Of Moose, Blueberries, and Chickadees
9,838 posts, read 4,977,712 times
Reputation: 12503
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottsheehan026 View Post
Three Wolves in Snow,

I thought I did a decent job of explaining my logic but I will try again.

First off your logic to mine doesn't make sense. You claim it's like I think if I continue to walk forward I might end up where I want. The problem with that is in your example it's just me. Well duh if it was just me and I thought I was going the wrong direction then sure I would like any sane person turn around immediately and walk the other direction but, it is not just me it is millions of people.

We could spend many many years fighting the left at every step trying to right the ship. What is better spending 20 years with half the people on a boat fighting the other half about the best way to turn it around. Or spending 4 years getting closer to the cliff and increasing the chance that the other half of the boat will spend the next 4 years helping you turn the boat and move it in the right direction?

Also Cunucu Beach you state that if Obama gets 4 more years it would be the end of America. My reply to that is.. Would it be so bad? I'm thinking that is by far the quickest way to get were we want to go. It isn't like America would just fall into the sea never to be seen again. We would all still be here. So if the Union dissolved most likely we would all end up in pockets or gathering to the areas where other people that share our views are. For instance I would be in Texas. We would most certainly form some sort of system here that was to the right of where America is now and boom I have a new America just much smaller. Unless some other country just decides to invade us while we are broke........
What is better whether it be one person following you or millions is to turn around and announce that you are going the wrong way. You then ask them to follow you as you go down the right way.

If they don't follow you, that's on them. You don't have to continue walking the wrong way to convince anyone. Why on earth would you walk right off of a cliff trying to win anyone over to your way of thinking. GO the right way, those others will follow or lose.

In the case of electing a president, yah, you might lose as well but you sure as hell didn't follow them down the wrong path, you tried to save them from it. THAT is what will get someone to listen to you later on.

"Gee, we were going the wrong way but he went the wrong way with us so he really doesn't know any more than we do."

vs

"Gee, we were going the wrong way and he tried to tell us and show us that but we didn't listen. I think I'm gonna listen next time."

As for your prediction that if we fell apart as a country, we would still all be here and just go in to little pockets...have you ever seen how desperate people act? If you would like to know how it would be on a whole in this country if we collapsed, take a look back at New Orleans and the total social unrest after Katrina. We may not have flooded houses, we may not have bodies floating by us but we sure as hell will have all of that mayhem because hungry, thirsty people do desperate things. People who have lost everything as well as hope, will do desperate things. Anyone who wanted to attack us will have it a whole hell of a lot easier. Let's not be naive about this.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Buda
97 posts, read 209,900 times
Reputation: 112
Your still missing my point. It isn't about being able to say I was right or I told you so. The point was that if Obama is in fact wrong and we give him 4 more years. There is a good chance those today. That still think he is correct and are still going to vote for him this coming election could in fact be shown proof that just like other nations we can not spend like we currently are.

If that does happen then in reality we will get further quicker 4 years from now with more people working America back to the right because the left has been disprove.

And if you go back to my first post on this subject. I didn't say this is what I believe we should do. I simply said it was one way to look at it and I have not made up my mind on who to vote for if it is Romney vs. Obama.

And don't think I am out of line when a say. That based on the right side from the last 15 years the left is correct. The right just as much as the left have spent money and gone against the Constitution. I don't think Romney will do anything to turn that view point around.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:05 PM
Status: "fan of genzebe dibaba" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
12,206 posts, read 4,339,996 times
Reputation: 4774
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
Virtually every far right goon in congress has been through "liberal" higher education and that doesn't seems to phase them.
Don't mistake being uneducated and ignorant as being a good thing.
When trying to tout the superior educational attainment of your side, it would be a good idea to get words, spelling, and grammar right

faze/phase
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:24 PM
 
1,335 posts, read 951,057 times
Reputation: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by stick2dascript View Post
Lol

Liberals tend to be more educated and tend to want equal rights for all people. Equal rights can be good or bad depending on how you look at it.

Libertarians tend to be very old school, don't really value change and tend to rather rather a isolated country with little issues than a bigger country with more issues, if that means having more enemies then so be it. Pretty much from 90 amd beyond was mostly liberal, every president including the last bush had serious liberal views.

I don't think liberal are assistance lovers, a tad bit more understanding than the just die and focus a favor strong armed view of the right.
I agree with this 100 percent. I am all for as much freedom in personal matters as we can but having known people who are or were at a time poor and having barely been able to get by myself, I know that not all low income/poor people are just lazy. I am all for having safety nets in place. If some of these programs are broken, then reform them but not in a way that virtually wipes them out.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Austin
17,917 posts, read 5,066,719 times
Reputation: 3965
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear View Post
In related news, E.O. Wilson has a new book out about what he believes is the primary human internal conflict: The need for self preservation vs. preservation of the group. Humans, being a social species, have evolved as groups: families, tribes, cities, nations. Some people just have a different balance of superego and ego. We place a lot of value on kindness towards others and empathy, but that's because it helps the species survive. If we were a solitary species, heck, we'd all be libertarians.
Libertarians DO place a lot of value on kindness towards others and empathy. We just believe it should be funded with donations to charity rather than a government program.

Why do some people still think government funded welfare is the only solution? Particularly after decades of total failure.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:26 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
11,829 posts, read 3,312,325 times
Reputation: 3748
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyyo View Post
I agree with this 100 percent. I am all for as much freedom in personal matters as we can but having known people who are or were at a time poor and having barely been able to get by myself, I know that not all low income/poor people are just lazy. I am all for having safety nets in place. If some of these programs are broken, then reform them but not in a way that virtually wipes them out.

Of course not all poor and low income people are lazy. We know that. I don't have issues with helping the poor, for those that truly need it. Such as those who are disabled, elderly, or have fallen on hard times. What needs to be reigned in are the ones who abuse the system.... generations who have sat on welfare sucking off of the government's teat! We definitely need reform! How do we do it? I wish I had all of the answers, but I have an idea. I also oppose bailing out big business, and the banksters who caused the mortgage crisis as well.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:41 AM
 
1,395 posts, read 510,332 times
Reputation: 280
A libertarian believes freedom and that the positive potential of individuals will always outshine the collective. Libertarians are not anarchists, and believe in private property rights, contract enforcement and rule of law.

There's no such thing as a liberal, those folks are progressives. They believe in strong central authority, and micromanaging people's lives supposedly for the good. Progressives, socialists, commies, greenies----it's all the different flavors of the same isht.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:07 PM
 
16,086 posts, read 4,579,610 times
Reputation: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjtwet View Post
A libertarian believes in self reliance a liberal believes in reliance on the government birth to grave
Then why have you and other righties labeled me and others that do not believe in your above statement as Liberals?????
The answer to the question, at least when it comes to discussion boards, is that you will be Labeled as either a Liberal or Conservative by the stands you take on the majority of issues in the begining of your membership. After that no matter how many times you take stands that do not fit that Label it will not matter, once applied Labels are permanent. Is what it is.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:09 PM
 
16,086 posts, read 4,579,610 times
Reputation: 3471
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Of course not all poor and low income people are lazy. We know that. I don't have issues with helping the poor, for those that truly need it. Such as those who are disabled, elderly, or have fallen on hard times. What needs to be reigned in are the ones who abuse the system.... generations who have sat on welfare sucking off of the government's teat! We definitely need reform! How do we do it? I wish I had all of the answers, but I have an idea. I also oppose bailing out big business, and the banksters who caused the mortgage crisis as well.
My my, we actually agree 100% on something
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