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Old 04-30-2012, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,483 posts, read 11,282,562 times
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And guns just up and decide to kill people.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:06 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,041,435 times
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Capitalism hasn't destroyed the USA or any place on Earth. The type of capitalism that people like Adam Smith and John Locke envisioned only existed for a brief time period. For capitalism to flourish you have to have honest players in the system and an honest government to oversee the system and keep it in check. NO ECONOMIC system operates in a vacuum of oversight and regulation. Even capitalism. Adam Smith always believed that for capitalism to flourish wealth and capital should never be concentrated in too few hands. Because of our fascist, corrupt, and tyrannical government who is in bed with the corporations and bought by special interest and owned by WallStreet banks US capitalism has been destroyed and replaced by a state type of corporatism.

REAL capitalism is what produces REAL wealth through private property, etc. ALL Americans are themselves or atleast should be little mini capitalists. The rich have gobbled up all the real CAPITAL i.e. land, minerals, real estate, etc. for themselves through the help of our dirty politicians. It takes capital to create wealth along with labor. Labor can come in many forms nowadays....i.e. workers, machines, computers etc. But capital will always be tangible or atleast should be i.e. trees, minerals, property, etc. This CAPITAL is what is used to build wealth. As less and less Americans have access to real capital, and more and more of it is concentrated into the hands of a few, especially mega corporations...........Well you have exactly what's going on in America today.

Please don't blame capitalism. It is simply a man made economic system that produces exponential amounts of wealth. But it takes an honest, just, society and government for it to function and flourish. Both of which we don't have.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:29 PM
 
692 posts, read 1,355,446 times
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Lack of regulation of the financial system, too much lending against too few assets caused the recent collapse.

There is also very different systems of capitalism ranging from complete market driven caspitalism to a more campassionate capitalism, most econmies being mixed rather than purely socialist or capitalist.

Mixed economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:30 PM
 
20,724 posts, read 19,363,240 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
Capitalism is fine, but when giant bloated tax sucking government officials play with property, banks and the stock market no wonder all goes to hell.

People making money is good.
Government growing, making BS laws and restricting productivity or directing certain actives is the problem.
Capitalism is not fine on its own. If it were why would we have patent laws?
Patent laws are not free market and more or less admit a flaw in Capitalism. The innovator is vulnerable to the R/D parasites. Its vulnerable to many more parasites than this. Ironically patent laws in software are now being used to stifle innovation via the patent wars.


Capitalism also is a creation of the state. Laws are put in place to encourage competition, so as not to allow offing your competition. It also does not always age well(monopoly) and is much more like a fuse that needs to be changed out, not a natural process. The world started out with a free market and ended up being feudalism. Not sure what is so hard about understanding a race to the top of the hill being very competitive, yet once reaching the top of the hill one may start hurling rocks from it.


I believe in a function market system, but anyone who thinks it just happens is really living in a fantasy.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:33 PM
 
20,724 posts, read 19,363,240 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulhall View Post
Lack of regulation of the financial system, too much lending against too few assets caused the recent collapse.

Banks don't ration credit, They create it. Big difference, huge. Forget regulation. Stop fractional reserve lending. That would at least bring available credit more in-line with market sentiment and stop the built in ponzi scheme.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:37 PM
 
3,345 posts, read 3,074,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I agree. Capitalism isn't what destroyed the US, corporate fascism did. The 2 are mutually exclusive

This is correct
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:42 PM
 
20,724 posts, read 19,363,240 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Capitalism hasn't destroyed the USA or any place on Earth. The type of capitalism that people like Adam Smith and John Locke envisioned only existed for a brief time period. For capitalism to flourish you have to have honest players in the system and an honest government to oversee the system and keep it in check. NO ECONOMIC system operates in a vacuum of oversight and regulation. Even capitalism. Adam Smith always believed that for capitalism to flourish wealth and capital should never be concentrated in too few hands. Because of our fascist, corrupt, and tyrannical government who is in bed with the corporations and bought by special interest and owned by WallStreet banks US capitalism has been destroyed and replaced by a state type of corporatism.

REAL capitalism is what produces REAL wealth through private property, etc. ALL Americans are themselves or atleast should be little mini capitalists. The rich have gobbled up all the real CAPITAL i.e. land, minerals, real estate, etc. for themselves through the help of our dirty politicians. It takes capital to create wealth along with labor. Labor can come in many forms nowadays....i.e. workers, machines, computers etc. But capital will always be tangible or atleast should be i.e. trees, minerals, property, etc. This CAPITAL is what is used to build wealth. As less and less Americans have access to real capital, and more and more of it is concentrated into the hands of a few, especially mega corporations...........Well you have exactly what's going on in America today.

Please don't blame capitalism. It is simply a man made economic system that produces exponential amounts of wealth. But it takes an honest, just, society and government for it to function and flourish. Both of which we don't have.

I almost agree with this but would separate capital from resources. Capital should be distinguished from being the product of human labor. Land, minerals and basic materials ought to be considered resources. Money made from them were in the classical period of economics called rents. Unfortunately resources retain value precisely because they cannot be made obsolete. Scarcity stores value. Capital is inherently in greater supply and is an unstable store of value(NASDAQ vs materials).

If a sweater takes 10 minutes to make instead of 20 , wealth may increase but as a store of value, it actually drops. So the wealthy buy up scarcity and increase access charges.


The big problem of capitalism is making sure reward rotates to the producer. Not an easy task.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:42 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,041,435 times
Reputation: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Banks don't ration credit, They create it. Big difference, huge. Forget regulation. Stop fractional reserve lending. That would at least bring available credit more in-line with market sentiment and stop the built in ponzi scheme.
EXACTLY! It's not even fractional anymore...it's a pure fiat based monetary system. And it's why our country will never get out of debt....."they" the rich powerful private banks and banking families don't want to relinquish their ponzi scheme money creation scam of a system..............the Federal Reserve.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:43 PM
 
692 posts, read 1,355,446 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Banks don't ration credit, They create it. Big difference, huge. Forget regulation. Stop fractional reserve lending. That would at least bring available credit more in-line with market sentiment and stop the built in ponzi scheme.
Banks in Europe and UK are now having to hold a greater ratio of adequacy in relation to capital as a percentage of assets. In other words they have to keep greater reserves in order that should another crisis occur thay are not as reliant on tax payers money.

Bank regulation battle focuses on liquidity - FT.com

Capital adequacy ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:48 PM
 
20,724 posts, read 19,363,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulhall View Post
Banks in Europe and UK are now having to hold a greater ratio of adequacy a bank's capital as a percentage of its assets, and

Bank regulation battle focuses on liquidity - FT.com

That slows it down but it needed to happen before the creation of a huge debtor class, not after. The banksters are all for keeping the currency strong after they have indebted everyone. As of now they are applying preventative medicine on a corpse. The other problem of course is the creditors need to deal with the defaults and eat it.

What needed to happen all along is DEFAULT. You loan to people who cannot pay? that's your problem.
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