When is it okay to become sexually active? Should you be married first? (suspect, border)

[Who?Me?!]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Yes, they actually can. People who sign on the dotted line are more apt to take it seriously than those who don't. Is it a guarantee? No.

But I would agree what would help more is a reduced emphasis on the role of romantic love as a valid criteria for marrying someone. This is not to say it doesn't matter, but it's level of impotance needs to be taken down a couple of notches.

Elizabeth Gilbert, who did extensive research on marriage for her book Committed found that:

If you look at the history of marriage, anytime you see a conservative culture of arranged marriage being replaced by a more liberal culture of romantic marriage ... you will see divorce rates start to rise immediately.

and

It turns out that love is a very fragile notion upon which to base a very important and complicated institution. I think most people throughout history would look at the way we choose our marriages today and just think, my God, these people took huge risks. They risk their future, financial stability, property and their heirs on something as fragile and delicate as romantic affection.

'Eat, Pray, Love' author tackles marriage - CNN

WHOA! Let's explore the BS of the following from your post:


""If you look at the history of marriage, anytime you see a conservative culture of arranged marriage being replaced by a more liberal culture of romantic marriage ... you will see divorce rates start to rise immediately."""


OK, a conservative culture will frown upon or forbid divorce. ...and THAT is why the divorce rate is lower.

In a "liberal" culture humans are allowed to marry for any reason they choose...treated like humans NOT like breeding cattle in a conservative culture...

Your "I think most people throughout history " obviously means the author did NO research since "I think" is not a fact.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Sorry, I work in a library and I don't remember the book I read it in.

Link or lie.
People make things up all the time. Don't expect us to believe you.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Boompa

Isn't this an indiviidual choice?

Yes, right up to the point where you ask me to pay for it.

The minute you ask me to pay for it I get total control and dictate the who, what, when, where, why, how, how much, how often etc etc.

Miserly...

Mircea

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

I don't think that taking it seriously or not is what really causes marriages to fail.

Yes it does.

Liberals have engaged in social engineering through legislation. It is far too easy to divorce, and divorce can be fun and profitable (but generally only if you're a woman).

I can't tell you the number of people I know who went into a marriage with the attitude that, "If it doesn't work out...we'll just get a divorce."

Oh, yeah? Well, I freaking pay for that with clogged up courts and a huge friggin' child-support-highway-robbery-bureaucracy.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

I think it has to do with the fact that people sometimes marry when both parties involved are still changing at very fast rates.

That is indicative of systemic failures in society. In the past, couples had no problem growing together, but then couples did something that no one does now, and that is "date."

You have children in the 3rd and 4th Grades "going steady." That is clear sign of a totally dysfunctional society.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

Well, when you change yourself, you change the relationships you're in. It's hard to keep a relationship going when people on both ends are rediscovering themselves at such a rapid rate.

Then why did they get married in the first place?

Probably because that the [dysfunctional] message the Media/Hollywood/Society sends: "If you ain't hooked up with somebody you're a failure."

When I was dating, one of the first questions I'd ask to screen out the psycho-women was, "How long has it been since your last serious relationship?"

I heard things like, "I left a serious relationship, and then 3 days later I was involved in a serious relationship, and then ended after 6 months and 4 days later I was in a serious relationship..."



That is a clear indication of serious mental/emotional illness, totally bereft if independence and ZERO self-esteem (since their entire self-worth is based on who they are attached to, and seeing how I have allergies to money and material things -- well, that won't work at all).

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

They may both have the best and most loving intentions at heart, but that doesn't change the fact that people generally go through a lot of personal development between the ages of 20 and 30--which makes maintaining a marriage within that age-bracket that much harder.

No one else seems to have problems. The whole purpose of getting married is to share your life, your dreams and your goals with someone else who has the same dreams and goals, but each of you have your own individual dreams and goals and you mutually support each other (emotionally) in achieving your goals/dreams.

Maybe instead of sex-education class, schools should be teaching about dating and relationships and marriage.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

I think that really depends on the individual and their mental, emotional, and physical health. It requires physical stamina to literally have sex, mental stability to be responsible about it, and emotional stability to deal with the effects of it.

And those are all good reasons to delay sex as long as possible.

Seriously...

Mircea

Originally Posted by Lizita

Happiness is irrelevant, huh?

I don't think you have the first clue about happiness.

Only you can make yourself happy, and happiness is an attitude or state of mind.

You probably got stuck in the psycho-babble stupidity that "success leads to happiness."

That is totally ass-backwards: It is happiness that leads to success. Why? Because you can never win if you are constantly changing the goal posts.

Right? It's just common sense. If you get good grades, sell 1 Million units, achieve this or that, then what? Then you have to get better grades, and sell 5 Million units and achieve this or that faster, or cheaper or with greater fanfare. You might be able to do that for a while, but eventually you will fail, because the goal posts have moved so far away that their over-the-horizon, off the chart, off the freaking Planet.

Originally Posted by Lizita

There is a reason why large parts of the society in countries where arranged marriages is the norm are moving away from old traditions and establishing new traditions of choosing your own spouse based on who you want to be with.

Yes, that was a trend, which is now reversing after seeing how "love-matches" are total disasters.

Originally Posted by Lizita

It's no accident that the movement is lead by young people who are educated and have been exposed to different ideas and ways of living - once people know better they do better because they value happiness and satisfaction.

What is the purpose of an arranged marriage? Well, in theory, you have a match-maker who is neutral and quite gifted/talented in the art of knowing and understanding people, and they match people together based on their temperaments, qualities and characteristics, instead of fleeting emotions.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, because it is subject to external interference, but such occurrences are in the minority.

Originally Posted by Lizita

Our society is full of people who stay in loveless marriages for the reasons you mentioned - financial stability, property and heirs - and they are miserable. I just don't think that's a small, irrelevant detail.

But the marriage was always loveless and never had a chance because one party got married "to get out the house" in order to escape their parents, or have more freedom, or in some cases to flee from physical, emotional or sexual abuse. Or they got married for the money, or to improve their lot in life, their standing, position, social class or something other thing. Some even marry out of jealousy or spite. Those are common reasons for women. For men, they're often seeking a Trophy Wife to show off.

Happily...

Mircea

Originally Posted by D217

I agree with this. Definitely.

I dated a guy for a good while, who turned out did not perform oral sex. Fuuuuuuu** thaaaaat!!!

"[F]or a good while...?" So you were too immature, weak and pathetic to broach the issue and discuss it early on in the relationship (like a mature person would), explaining to him your needs and desires in no uncertain terms. I discuss sex before the first date. Before I ask a woman out and waste money on her, I'm going to know whether or not we are compatible in certain key areas, sex being one of those certain key areas. I will know exactly what she does in bed, and if we are not compatible, the conversation ends, "No Harm, No Foul." An inability to discuss matters of sex openly and frankly is a sure sign of sexual and emotional immaturity, and no point wasting time with someone like that, since it will do nothing but lead to stress.

Maturely...Mircea

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

It's true that that teen birth rate is down. But the out of wedlock birthrate has gone nowhere but UP. And it doesn't bode well for the parents or the kids. If you have a kid as a single parent, you're more likely to live in poverty or semi poverty. People who live with their partners are more likely to split up than those who sign on the dotted line of the marriage contract.

Scholar Kay Hymowitz, author of Marriage and Caste in America: Separate and Unequal Families in a Post-Marital Age, turns the argument around and says it's not that harsh economic conditions lead to women having children without fathers, but that the decision to have children without fathers leads to harsh, and self-perpetuating, economic conditions. She explains that having the belief that a solid marriage is central to one's life—that it precedes starting a family—encourages women and men to make important choices based on self-discipline and deliberation. This is a formula "needed for upward mobility, qualities all the more important in a tough new knowledge economy."

Good points.

Concurring...

Mircea

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by Lizita

Happiness is irrelevant, huh? There is a reason why large parts of the society in countries where arranged marriages is the norm are moving away from old traditions and establishing new traditions of choosing your own spouse based on who you want to be with. It's no accident that the movement is lead by young people who are educated and have been exposed to different ideas and ways of living - once people know better they do better because they value happiness and satisfaction.
Our society is full of people who stay in loveless marriages for the reasons you mentioned - financial stability, property and heirs - and they are miserable. I just don't think that's a small, irrelevant detail.

Not defending arranged marriages, but there are studies out there that show that arranged married couples are as happy or happier than "love"-married couples (they call Western-style marriage "love marriage" in South Asia).

It's when one member of the partnership refuses to compromise or work with the other that things fall apart.

[Willsson]

Originally Posted by 90sman

No, I'm shocked by the fact that ***** considers it okay for children to have sex. It's disturbing that he even thinks that. Apparently we have a pedo on here. Not sure why no one else pointed that out.

That's a pretty rude finger to be pointing at someone, making an accusation based on an assumption after reading an anonymous post.

Be careful someone doesn't ask you to explain your knowledge to a two way mirror. And just remember, the idea was yours... not the posters. And while you're at it, you might want to get an updated dictionary.

[90sman]

Originally Posted by tofurkey

That's a pretty rude finger to be pointing at someone, making an accusation based on an assumption after reading an anonymous post.

Be careful someone doesn't ask you to explain your knowledge to a two way mirror. And just remember, the idea was yours... not the posters. And while you're at it, you might want to get an updated dictionary.

It's not rude, it's the truth nor am I making an "assumption". Someone asked him and he very clearly said it was okay with him for someone aged 9-11 to have sex. That isn't questionable and disturbing to you?!

[D217]

Originally Posted by Mircea

"[F]or a good while...?" So you were too immature, weak and pathetic to broach the issue and discuss it early on in the relationship (like a mature person would), explaining to him your needs and desires in no uncertain terms. I discuss sex before the first date.

You discuss sex before the first date?! ROFL. You are either lying or just completely uncouth.

Sorry, not my style!


As for me, it didn't become an issue until "a good while" into the relationship, but yes, it was discussed at that point.

[Boompa]

OK, so a man has four wives, some of whom are teen aged. He flees th Mexico where he marries a fifth wife. Then he returns to the US with the fifth wife and her son. What is their status

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Liberals have engaged in social engineering through legislation. It is far too easy to divorce, and divorce can be fun and profitable (but generally only if you're a woman).

Are you proposing that we force people who do not like each other to remain married regardless?

[Lizita]

Originally Posted by 90sman

It's not rude, it's the truth nor am I making an "assumption". Someone asked him and he very clearly said it was okay with him for someone aged 9-11 to have sex. That isn't questionable and disturbing to you?!

It's the truth that this poster is a pedophile? What? Do you know what a pedophile is? Sure, it may be outrageous that someone thinks that it's okay for 10-year olds to have sex but that definitely doesn't make him a pedophile. In case you didn't know, which seems to be the case, a pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. There is nothing in the post you commented on that indicated that the poster is attracted to children.