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Old 05-13-2012, 09:30 AM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,716,252 times
Reputation: 5659

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Serge View Post
I'm 19, and a gay guy. I have been out since I was 16. I used to be fully on the LGBT rights side...

...until last night, when I found myself smiling at the news that North Carolina voted to ban gay marriage in their Constitution.

Why, you may ask?

Well, I also happen to be a black gay guy. And over the couple years I've been hanging around LGBT circles, I've noticed an astounding amount of racism among them. Yes, I know, racism is everywhere... but I've noticed that most of the racism I've been on the receiving end of has been from gay people.

How can I tell that the racism is from gay people? Well, I'd figure two guys holding hands is a pretty good sign, and seeing that in Dallas/Fort Worth here is common as pigeons nowadays. Plus, there's looking at Facebook profiles, clothing, bumper stickers, et cetera. I'd say 75% of racist crap hurled at me comes from them.

Upper-middle-class white guys--many of them gay--are busy gentrifying the inner cities of Dallas and Fort Worth... but are also busy looking down their noses at African-Americans who have been here most or all of our lives, years and decades before they even hatched the idea to move here from the suburbs. I get death glares from them when I ride my bike through what they consider "their" districts (Oak Lawn in Dallas is a perfect example) as if they're afraid I'll steal their hideous little pink mopeds or something.

I've also noticed how the majority of white gay guys (at least in my city) won't even befriend a black guy, as if we're a different species or something. Many of them are what I call "romantic racists", who shut out blacks (and sometimes even Asians too) from their romantic lives, under the guise of "just their preference", as if that's a valid excuse to be a racist. (For the record, I "prefer" catfish over fried chicken, but that don't mean I never eat chicken! In fact, I love both!)

Then, on the flip side, are the racist black gay guys. Not just the ones who won't date whites, but the ones who look down on other black guys who they don't think act "black enough". If I had an actual Oreo cookie for every time I've been called an Oreo, I'd be able to send them cookies to a third-world country and not only solve the hunger problem, but probably cause an explosion in the diabetes rate, too!

And no, I still don't know what "black enough" is. Perhaps if I drove a clown car that looks like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and a Terminator made love and had a hideous kid? No Earthly idea.

I've even been on the receiving end of physical attack where racial slurs were being yelled... and then later found out 3 of the 4 perpetrators were gay. The irony is disgusting.

My overall point is, the LGBT "community" needs to get its own house in order when it comes to discrimination before they start complaining about discrimination against them. A white gay guy that whines about not having equal rights and being discriminated against, then tells a black guy "no" because they're black, ain't nothing but a hypocrite.

I have stopped standing for gay rights, and don't plan to restart any time soon.
That's great "Ghettolectual" logic there buddy!!!
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:45 AM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,431 posts, read 18,964,165 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Serge View Post
I'm 19, and a gay guy. I have been out since I was 16. I used to be fully on the LGBT rights side...

...until last night, when I found myself smiling at the news that North Carolina voted to ban gay marriage in their Constitution.

Why, you may ask?

Well, I also happen to be a black gay guy. And over the couple years I've been hanging around LGBT circles, I've noticed an astounding amount of racism among them. Yes, I know, racism is everywhere... but I've noticed that most of the racism I've been on the receiving end of has been from gay people.

How can I tell that the racism is from gay people? Well, I'd figure two guys holding hands is a pretty good sign, and seeing that in Dallas/Fort Worth here is common as pigeons nowadays. Plus, there's looking at Facebook profiles, clothing, bumper stickers, et cetera. I'd say 75% of racist crap hurled at me comes from them.

Upper-middle-class white guys--many of them gay--are busy gentrifying the inner cities of Dallas and Fort Worth... but are also busy looking down their noses at African-Americans who have been here most or all of our lives, years and decades before they even hatched the idea to move here from the suburbs. I get death glares from them when I ride my bike through what they consider "their" districts (Oak Lawn in Dallas is a perfect example) as if they're afraid I'll steal their hideous little pink mopeds or something.

I've also noticed how the majority of white gay guys (at least in my city) won't even befriend a black guy, as if we're a different species or something. Many of them are what I call "romantic racists", who shut out blacks (and sometimes even Asians too) from their romantic lives, under the guise of "just their preference", as if that's a valid excuse to be a racist. (For the record, I "prefer" catfish over fried chicken, but that don't mean I never eat chicken! In fact, I love both!)

Then, on the flip side, are the racist black gay guys. Not just the ones who won't date whites, but the ones who look down on other black guys who they don't think act "black enough". If I had an actual Oreo cookie for every time I've been called an Oreo, I'd be able to send them cookies to a third-world country and not only solve the hunger problem, but probably cause an explosion in the diabetes rate, too!

And no, I still don't know what "black enough" is. Perhaps if I drove a clown car that looks like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and a Terminator made love and had a hideous kid? No Earthly idea.

I've even been on the receiving end of physical attack where racial slurs were being yelled... and then later found out 3 of the 4 perpetrators were gay. The irony is disgusting.

My overall point is, the LGBT "community" needs to get its own house in order when it comes to discrimination before they start complaining about discrimination against them. A white gay guy that whines about not having equal rights and being discriminated against, then tells a black guy "no" because they're black, ain't nothing but a hypocrite.

I have stopped standing for gay rights, and don't plan to restart any time soon.
As a medium skinned mex-american who lived in the dallas gay scene over 20 years ago, I do know exactly where you are coming from. I used to witness white gays saying things like "chocolate makes me break out" when referring to a black guy. I got into a fight once with one of those highland park acting white guys once over some racial comment (at least I perceived it that way). You really need to get out of that city!!!!

But you must see that by being against same sex marriage, you are only hurting yourself. If you are lucky enough to settle down with the one that you love, the protections of marriage will help you when you need them. That is what you should think about, not what it does for whitey.

I don't think that is all there is to it though. What you see at "the bars" is only a small sliver of gay folk. There are many who are not racist and very progressive in fact.
I think that there is a lot of anger directed toward blacks by white gays as a result of the endless deluge of high profile black men shown in the media, usually athletes who are so militantly anti-gay and the Prop 8 vote, the bigotry of the black church, etc. It doesn't help things.

Humankind will not progress if we "keep hurting each other" like in the old carpenters song. We simply cannot justify denying rights to one specific group. As MLK said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Last edited by wehotex; 05-13-2012 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:02 AM
 
7,108 posts, read 8,925,501 times
Reputation: 6415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Serge View Post
Tried it for many years. Still got treated horridly, because the facts were, they (not just gay people, but most everyone) looked down on me based on class, looks, hobbies, et cetera. Simple fact is, "confidence" and "attitude" don't matter a bit if people look down on you in the first place. Nice try though.

One thing that you have to learn is as a Black man gay or straight, you are going to have to deal with certain things. One of the things that I hate is when White people tell you what you have experienced is not what you experience. It doesn't matter what people on city-data post, you will be judged as a Black male and have to defend yourself against racial stereo types moreso than for your sexuality. It is a fact that most of the discrimination I've experienced in my 4 years in Chicago has been from the gay community and to a lesser degree from so-called liberal Whites. If someone wants to dispute my experience without walking in my shoes that is their problem.

Confidence in a Black man is intimidating to insecure people. It is even worse if your outgoing and verbal. One thing that I have experienced is being able to attract people to my circle who are suppose to be there. Most people who are in my circle are straight males and females black gay and straight, white and hispanics who are confident and successful who are not intimidated by others success who could care less who someone sleeps with. I have zero gay white men in my circle. Its not that I haven't shown myself friendly to people from that community, its due to the prejudice, insecurity and superficialiality from the White gay community. From what I've seen over the years its best to keep it that way. When its time for me to include someone from that community, they will show up.
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Old 05-15-2012, 02:22 PM
 
2,463 posts, read 2,780,074 times
Reputation: 3627
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman View Post
It's official: the gays need immediate and intensive therapy. A gay who is okay with a constitutional ban that ensures that he will never be able to marry. That is rich. I'm against gay marriage and this further proves that the gays don't even agree with each other on what they want.

So because a white gay isn't interested in dating blacks, they're automatically racist? Ridiculous. People have preferences. Most people wouldn't date an extremely obese person, does it mean that they're bigots who hate fat people? Umm, no. It means that they don't find someone with a belly and extreme backfat attractive. Additionally, do ALL white gays exclude blacks from their dating preferences? No. I have an interracial gay couple who lives down the cul-de-sac from me who make attempts to greet me every so often.

What is clearly happening within the gay community is members trying to create a social hierarchy system. Since gays are looked down on in this society, gays just carry this caste system into their own community, feeling as if they're better than other gays for some superficial reason. Yet the gays want to turn around and call any heterosexual person who is against gay marriage a bigot and close-minded. It is clear that the gay community is literally teeming with people in need of extremely intensive individual and group therapy. There are obviously many gays who are exploding with self-hatred, including you apparently. Sad.
Amazing how ignorant this post is. The gay community is no different than any other community, or minority within a culture. Usually, when you have an entire class of people that are oppressed, this does not mean there is solidarity and commradarie within the group. --And often, their oppression can cause dysfunction within the group. For example, do all blacks get along? Do they have their own preferences? Are there light skin blacks that prefer other light skin blacks, or whites for that matter? Are there socio-economic differences which exemplify this caste system you exemplify within the AA community? Incidentally, even in India, the lighter skinned people are preferred, and are often within the upper caste members. What about Jewish people? Do you think there is no oppression against marrying a Jew who is not a professional earning a considerable salary? What about Muslims who are progressive, getting along with traditional Muslims? Also, the gay community is actually a community made up of all members of humanity, so there are many unique differences to begin with, so it would only be natural that there would be some members that would contend with others differences.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Southwest Louisiana
3,071 posts, read 3,213,475 times
Reputation: 915
I must say this opens up another level of discussion when it comes to discrimination and it would interesting to hear a different perspective from a gay male.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:55 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,624,812 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman View Post
It's official: the gays need immediate and intensive therapy
Physician, heal thyself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pandorafan5687 View Post
I must say this opens up another level of discussion when it comes to discrimination and it would interesting to hear a different perspective from a gay male.
No problem. Here's my opinion: Taking a position against same-sex marriage out of spite for what he believes to be racism within the gay community is beyond ridiculous. It's utter BS.

How's that?
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:15 AM
 
10,449 posts, read 12,439,563 times
Reputation: 12596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Serge View Post
I'm 19, and a gay guy. I have been out since I was 16. I used to be fully on the LGBT rights side...

...until last night, when I found myself smiling at the news that North Carolina voted to ban gay marriage in their Constitution.

Why, you may ask?

Well, I also happen to be a black gay guy. And over the couple years I've been hanging around LGBT circles, I've noticed an astounding amount of racism among them. Yes, I know, racism is everywhere... but I've noticed that most of the racism I've been on the receiving end of has been from gay people.

How can I tell that the racism is from gay people? Well, I'd figure two guys holding hands is a pretty good sign, and seeing that in Dallas/Fort Worth here is common as pigeons nowadays. Plus, there's looking at Facebook profiles, clothing, bumper stickers, et cetera. I'd say 75% of racist crap hurled at me comes from them.

Upper-middle-class white guys--many of them gay--are busy gentrifying the inner cities of Dallas and Fort Worth... but are also busy looking down their noses at African-Americans who have been here most or all of our lives, years and decades before they even hatched the idea to move here from the suburbs. I get death glares from them when I ride my bike through what they consider "their" districts (Oak Lawn in Dallas is a perfect example) as if they're afraid I'll steal their hideous little pink mopeds or something.

I've also noticed how the majority of white gay guys (at least in my city) won't even befriend a black guy, as if we're a different species or something. Many of them are what I call "romantic racists", who shut out blacks (and sometimes even Asians too) from their romantic lives, under the guise of "just their preference", as if that's a valid excuse to be a racist. (For the record, I "prefer" catfish over fried chicken, but that don't mean I never eat chicken! In fact, I love both!)

Then, on the flip side, are the racist black gay guys. Not just the ones who won't date whites, but the ones who look down on other black guys who they don't think act "black enough". If I had an actual Oreo cookie for every time I've been called an Oreo, I'd be able to send them cookies to a third-world country and not only solve the hunger problem, but probably cause an explosion in the diabetes rate, too!

And no, I still don't know what "black enough" is. Perhaps if I drove a clown car that looks like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and a Terminator made love and had a hideous kid? No Earthly idea.

I've even been on the receiving end of physical attack where racial slurs were being yelled... and then later found out 3 of the 4 perpetrators were gay. The irony is disgusting.

My overall point is, the LGBT "community" needs to get its own house in order when it comes to discrimination before they start complaining about discrimination against them. A white gay guy that whines about not having equal rights and being discriminated against, then tells a black guy "no" because they're black, ain't nothing but a hypocrite.

I have stopped standing for gay rights, and don't plan to restart any time soon.
I wonder if you think I should oppose gay rights and civil rights on the basis that a lot of people (some of them gay or black themselves) mistreat me as a blind person.

I've had people tell me that God was punishing me with my disability because I'm "engaging in the homosexual lifestyle".

I've had people ask me countless times if my Black partner was my caregiver, cause they couldn't conceive of a white disabled person and a black able-bodied person having a relationship on an equal basis.

I've had people tell me my girlfriend and I were "perfect for each other" because we're both disabled.

I've had other disabled people tell me I don't have a right to go to college as a blind person.

I will never know what it's like to be Black because I was born white, in a white world. But my heart goes out to the Black community and other communities that face discrimination, because I know what it feels like to be discriminated against--on the universal level. I realize that each type of discrimination is unique in some ways, but I think we can all relate on the fact that there is always that sting when someone makes a stupid assumption about you, or drops any inclination to treat you with basic decency, based on an immutable trait.

The fact that racism, homophobia, and ableism (disability-based discrimination) are all alive and well today is all the more reason we should stand up even stronger for everyone's rights--not take them away.

Last edited by nimchimpsky; 05-29-2012 at 06:24 AM..
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,165,148 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxrckr View Post
OP, I'm so sorry to hear that you have been experiencing racism.

However, I think racism is not as similar to the gay situation as you may think.

- Marriage is not an outright civil right; that is why states have varying prereqs for couples before they can marry

- A civil right is based upon something you are born with and cannot control; race, ethnicity, gender. To this day there is NO conclusive scientific proof that people are born gay, only that they may be born with certain propensities to strong urges including alcoholism, sex-addiction, etc (despite activists attempts to convince us otherwise such as the "gay gene" fraud story several years ago)

- If gay marriage is legalized on a national basis, large numbers of people will LOSE rights; Christians, Jews and Muslims will lose the right to refuse to service gay weddings, counselors to advise against aspects of the gay lifestyle, and basically anyone to speak their disagreement of it
1) Marriage is a civil right according to the Supreme Court.

2)If orientation is not something you are born with, and only a choice as you say, then it is the same choice for heterosexuals. The government should not reward heterosexuals for their choice either.

3)No church will be required to perform any marriage ceremony. Do Catholic churches currently have to do Jewish weddings? NO The first amendment will still apply.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,165,148 times
Reputation: 9895
To the OP:

There is racism, class-ism, sexism, able-ism, and every other ism in every community. Some gay men don't like femm lesbians. Some heteros don't like femm lesbians. Some lesbians don't like effeminate gay men. Some butch lesbians don't like fems.

The point is to find who you are, and build your circle of friends. Those that "hate" are losing out on the wonderful friend I can be to them. Their loss, not mine. I move on and find people who love me for me.

To vote against, or be happy for the loss of, equality for yourself is totally self defeating.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:58 AM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,470,913 times
Reputation: 4305
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxrckr View Post
OP, I'm so sorry to hear that you have been experiencing racism.

However, I think racism is not as similar to the gay situation as you may think.

- Marriage is not an outright civil right; that is why states have varying prereqs for couples before they can marry

- A civil right is based upon something you are born with and cannot control; race, ethnicity, gender. To this day there is NO conclusive scientific proof that people are born gay, only that they may be born with certain propensities to strong urges including alcoholism, sex-addiction, etc (despite activists attempts to convince us otherwise such as the "gay gene" fraud story several years ago)

- If gay marriage is legalized on a national basis, large numbers of people will LOSE rights; Christians, Jews and Muslims will lose the right to refuse to service gay weddings, counselors to advise against aspects of the gay lifestyle, and basically anyone to speak their disagreement of it
Why would legalizing gay marriage result in Christians, Jews and Mulsims losing rights. Why would they lose the right to refuse to perform gay marriages. Any church has the legal right to refuse to marry anyone for any reason. No church is forced to marry a couple that they do not want to marry. Legalizing gay marriage will not change that one bit. That is just a scare tactic to get people against gay marriage. If a church does not want to marry an interracial couple or an interreligious couple, that is their legal right.
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