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View Poll Results: Should churchs be taxed?
Yes, tax them to the full extend of other businesses. 31 46.97%
Yes, but allow certain exemptions to be fair. 15 22.73%
No, they deserve to remain exempt. 20 30.30%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-12-2012, 05:12 AM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,255 posts, read 13,998,263 times
Reputation: 6471

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boycewv View Post
Please don't spit that myth again, if you work you are paying taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plannine View Post
Most of the people who pay neither federal income tax nor payroll taxes are low-income people who are elderly, unable to work due to a serious disability, or students. In the last few years, this group also includes a significant number of people who have become unemployed or having declining income due to employment loss.

Most pay payroll taxes and have income that is so low that they are less than the sum of the standard deduction and personal and dependent exemptions for which the household qualifies.

Most people who do not pay federal income tax in a given year do pay that tax over time. For example, more than half of the tax filers who received the EITC between 1989 and 2006 received the credit for no more than a year or two at a time and generally paid substantial amounts of federal income tax in other years.





Corporations and small business owners also pay no income tax during bad years, but I don't see very many going after them......


Between 1998 to 2005, 50 percent of large corporations paid no corporate income tax for at least one year. But just 2.7 percent of large corporations reported no net tax liability in all eight of those eight years. This reflects a similar pattern as applies to families and individuals — those who do not pay income tax in a given year often do pay income tax over time.
not quite

many who pay zero in feredal income AND payroll taxes are middleclass

I make 60k a year..and pay NOTHING in federal income or federal payroll tax.........why.....one reason is my property tax (home owner)...infact when I get all my money back at tax time..I get back MORE than what had been paid over the year in federal income and payroll taxes COMBINEd......and I dont even quailfy for the EIC.....most workers earning less than 40k will pay nearly nothing in taxes..even those who are not married or homeowners
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,235 posts, read 14,016,095 times
Reputation: 5916
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattee01 View Post
Some will probably disagree with me, but I am completely convinced that the church is a business. They have to appeal to 'customers' (congregation) that leads to purchases (sometimes literal, but more often donations and tithes) which goes towards bills and managment (secretary, minister, manager, etc) and are usually members of an associated business group (PCA, SBA, CoJCoLDS)

So, with all the lobbying and politics they try and get involved in, do you agree that they should be treated like most other businesses and have to pay local, state, and federal taxes? Is this only fair considering they take up land that could be used for something else and are largely profitable yet untouchable? Could this be a solution not only for helping seperate church and state, but also fund tight budgets that keep getting tighter? After all, they still take up land, use roads for accessibility, use utilities, and as I stated before, follow usual business principles.

You decide...
Depends. If they are involved in politics then they should lose their tax excempt status. If they are running any business then that business portion should pay taxes just as any other business should. If a church sticks to their own business of religion then they should remain tax free IMHO.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Michigan
5,370 posts, read 4,635,841 times
Reputation: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
not quite

many who pay zero in feredal income AND payroll taxes are middleclass

I make 60k a year..and pay NOTHING in federal income or federal payroll tax.........why.....one reason is my property tax (home owner)...infact when I get all my money back at tax time..I get back MORE than what had been paid over the year in federal income and payroll taxes COMBINEd......and I dont even quailfy for the EIC.....most workers earning less than 40k will pay nearly nothing in taxes..even those who are not married or homeowners
Like you, most of the 47% the DO pay taxes. They might get it back one way or another, but they do pay (just like corporations). The number is touted around as the 47% don't work and are freeloaders.

They, for the most part (like you) are not.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:10 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,358 posts, read 7,731,022 times
Reputation: 7213
There should be another choice in the poll: Tax the churches that get involved in politics. If the can't keep the separation of church and state then they don't deserve the tax breaks. Churches shouldn't be preaching who to vote for or handing out voter guides.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:26 AM
 
11,364 posts, read 8,392,114 times
Reputation: 7046
The mega church down the street runs a gym. They let anybody join. You do not have to go to that church. If fact, they hope by coming to the gym, you will come to church. They are in direct competition with the rest of the exercise places in town. They can charge much less due to their no tax. What about them? Taxes?
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Somewhere Out West
2,260 posts, read 2,133,794 times
Reputation: 1902
If a church gets involved in politics, then yes it should be taxed. The basic functions of church, not it should not.

My last church we were asset rich and cash poor. Asset rich because we owned the building outright and had for decades. It was bought when the land and area were cheap, now it is worth more but if it was sold, where would the church go? If they had to pay property tax, they would close - we did give the city a small grant in lieu of taxes but the full property tax bill would have forced them to close the door.

Before you say so what, the church did homeless outreach meals, feeding over 200 at each sitting, had clothing and hygiene supplies for those in need, ran a foodbank for a while, brought in volunteer medical/social work people to assist those in need, paid rent and utility bills for members hitting rough times and loaned out its facilities to other community groups on a regular basis. If they would have had to move, a whole community would have lost.

I was very clear - no politics could be discussed - PERIOD. The separation of church and state is important. If you want to talk politics, take it somewhere else. (This church was in California, not Canada).

Oh yeah, I couldn't even afford a new car let alone a porsche. My housing was subsidized by a rich congregant, otherwise I couldn't have afforded to live in the city on the salary I received.

Something needs to be done to weed out the crooks and fraud-filled churches, but blanket taxation is not the answer.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:18 AM
 
16,572 posts, read 14,029,521 times
Reputation: 20525
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
The mega church down the street runs a gym. They let anybody join. You do not have to go to that church. If fact, they hope by coming to the gym, you will come to church. They are in direct competition with the rest of the exercise places in town. They can charge much less due to their no tax. What about them? Taxes?
Do you think it is that they pay no tax or that they do not need to make a profit? They are paying payroll tax, most states require them to pay sales tax on services they provide and charge for (like a gym membership), so what exactly are they getting a tax break on compared to a private gym? The property tax maybe? So how much does property tax add to the cost of a private gym membership?

http://www.wkpz.com/documentdownload...ookieSupport=1

I couldn't find a gym but a woodworking company (about the same square footage as a gym) in the state with the most expensive property taxes, NJ, pays $200 a month in property taxes. So the difference the church is saving over the gym is $200 a month. Is that the difference between being a profitable business and not?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/bu...pagewanted=all
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:25 AM
Status: "Elect a clown? Expect a circus!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,093 posts, read 40,876,393 times
Reputation: 29767
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Most churches are not in "business", and I am not sure where you get the idea that they are "profitable". Who is making profits? Anyway, the separation of church and state entitles them to be exempt from taxes.
The Constitution only bars Congress from making laws about the establishment of religion, no where does it say churches should get a pass on paying for the municipal services they use that taxpayers foot the bill for, police, fire, water, sewer, sanitation, etc., etc., etc......................

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
That being said, I am sure there are some corrupt people running churches as businesses, and maybe making money. But why punish all of them, and the services they provide to their communities, for the actions of a few?
Why should non-churchgoers be forced to contribute to the support of churches?
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,465 posts, read 3,950,643 times
Reputation: 1369
Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy View Post
If a church gets involved in politics, then yes it should be taxed. The basic functions of church, not it should not.

My last church we were asset rich and cash poor. Asset rich because we owned the building outright and had for decades. It was bought when the land and area were cheap, now it is worth more but if it was sold, where would the church go? If they had to pay property tax, they would close - we did give the city a small grant in lieu of taxes but the full property tax bill would have forced them to close the door.

Before you say so what, the church did homeless outreach meals, feeding over 200 at each sitting, had clothing and hygiene supplies for those in need, ran a foodbank for a while, brought in volunteer medical/social work people to assist those in need, paid rent and utility bills for members hitting rough times and loaned out its facilities to other community groups on a regular basis. If they would have had to move, a whole community would have lost.

I was very clear - no politics could be discussed - PERIOD. The separation of church and state is important. If you want to talk politics, take it somewhere else. (This church was in California, not Canada).

Oh yeah, I couldn't even afford a new car let alone a porsche. My housing was subsidized by a rich congregant, otherwise I couldn't have afforded to live in the city on the salary I received.

Something needs to be done to weed out the crooks and fraud-filled churches, but blanket taxation is not the answer.
So at the church you never discussed why there was so much: homelessness, hunger, medical/social needs? You never discussed what should be done about the problems causing: homelessness, hunger, need for medical/social care? Because if you did you were engaging in politics.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,465 posts, read 3,950,643 times
Reputation: 1369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
There should be another choice in the poll: Tax the churches that get involved in politics. If the can't keep the separation of church and state then they don't deserve the tax breaks. Churches shouldn't be preaching who to vote for or handing out voter guides.
Under current law if a church preaches who to vote for the can and do lose their tax-exempt status.
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