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Old 05-14-2012, 01:05 PM
 
1,512 posts, read 1,573,816 times
Reputation: 579

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The devil is in the details of these so-called examples, isn't it? Ever try learning the details of these and why they were actually passed or not passed?
I have. Except for Bush 43 defunding EEOC enforcement, the rest was for a paper I wrote in school.


Quote:
It is utter nonsense that the Republicans hate minorities.
We can parse words all day long, but if a person chooses to obstruct the success of another person and sentences that person's family to a lower quality of life than the one their abilities merit, that is an act of hate; therefore, the person who does so hates the other and every person to whom that other is attached.

I know it's true that some Republicans love minorities... they love them to cut their grass and love them to wash their linens and love them to cook their food. They just don't love them enough to require that their party give a little support on the workplace discrimination front.

 
Old 05-14-2012, 01:06 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,043,988 times
Reputation: 14896
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet_ohara View Post
I am not a proponent of blind loyalty to any party. Blind loyalty is irrational, IMO.

You recognize that Democrats = patronization. Is being supported and aided by a patron a desirable thing to be? Do you believe minorities cannot stand on their own as individuals without these patrons? For the most part, these patrons don't believe that minorities can or even have the intellectual ability.
What is "blind loyalty?" Is it blind loyalty when you a particular entity serves one's aspirations or when one remains loyal even in the face of that entities efforts to thwart those aspirations or goals? If it is the later, it is ridiculous to argue that African Americans are "blindly" allegiant to the Democratic Party, but rather base their allegiance upon a proven record of serving their interest.

As you should no, African American allegiance to the Democratic Party is a rather recent development. From 1865 until 1936 African Americans were solidly aligned with the Republican Party, it was only after years of frustration with the Republican Party to achieve the aspirational goals of African Americans was there a dramatic shift to the Democrats. A shift that was based upon clear and overt actions taken by the Democrats to address the aspirational goals of a segment of their constituency.

Was that patronization? Of course it was. Patronization is the hallmark of political association, the sine qua non of politics. Political associations are for the purpose of gathering together individuals into a collective group to achieve like minded political results. This is such an elementary principle of a democratic society that it should need no further explanation.

The problem with the canard that African Americans "blindly follow" the Democratic Party, besides defying all logic considering the positions that African Americans hold within the Party and all levels of government as the result of their "allegiance, is the perception on the part of white Republicans and a hand full of black conservatives, is that they claim to know what is best for the fulfillment of African American political aspirations all the while using words and actions which run counter to the perceived best interest of African Americans, all too often in a stereotyping and condescending tone that African Americans can not, will not, will never concede as being reflective of their reality.

So what should African Americans do with their collective political strength? Support the Party whose policies they have been instrumental in shaping and as a result of their association has achieved previously unbelievable success, or the Party that inherently doesn't not believe in their political aspirations, who in fact denigrates those aspirations, and whose policies are widely perceived to have had an adverse affect upon those aspirations?

I think that answer to that question remains quite clear to the vast majority of African Americans.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 01:12 PM
 
2,447 posts, read 2,673,467 times
Reputation: 2203
They would need to stop placing so much importance on religion, and stop lauding fallacious ideals like the rich being job creators and being so pro-war.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 01:18 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,105 posts, read 34,570,785 times
Reputation: 16155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_IA View Post
I don't believe they do. I am a registered Republican and I don't hate people because they are darker complected than me.

I do hate the inner city gangster rap thug culture and what it brings to society. But there are people of all races who participate in that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
What is this obsession with the whole "inner city" thing?

What is that supposed to mean? That's the thing that gets me too...this coded language. "Inner City." I just laugh when i hear that one. I guess it's supposed to encapsulate everything bad about the universe or something.
I am a Chinese American woman and I am a registered Independent who leans towards moderate conservative views. And I know many other Asian Americans who feel the same way I do.

And we agree with Greg_IA in regards to disliking inner city gangsta culture and values. And what that means to us is that we value academic achievement and having children within marriage. We don't support welfare and Section 8 subsidies. We don't feel entitled to anything and work for what we want. We don't expect government handouts and we don't need affirmative action to get ahead. We don't want to take from the wealthy either.

Where I disagree with the far right Republicans is I am pro choice and pro gay marriage. But I do like moderate Republicans like Senator Scott Brown.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,851,325 times
Reputation: 12173
Republicanism at work
 
Old 05-14-2012, 01:23 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,508,828 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Homogenizer View Post
I have. Except for Bush 43 defunding EEOC enforcement, the rest was for a paper I wrote in school.




We can parse words all day long, but if a person chooses to obstruct the success of another person and sentences that person's family to a lower quality of life than the one their abilities merit, that is an act of hate; therefore, the person who does so hates the other and every person to whom that other is attached.

I know it's true that some Republicans love minorities... they love them to cut their grass and love them to wash their linens and love them to cook their food. They just don't love them enough to require that their party give a little support on the workplace discrimination front.
Really? Well, perhaps you could provide a link to what the Republican's exact reasons and words were about why they were yea or nay on these legislations?

If you think it is only Republicans who hire domestic help then you aren't dealing in reality. Where is this workplace discimination going on that the Republicans support?

Speaking of discrimination, English speaking white and black Americans are being discriminated against in hiring practices if they don't speak Spanish. Where is your outrage over that? The Democrats are pandering to Hispanics (another minority group) for votes and don't mind that illegals aliens are taking our jobs and raping our tax coffers.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 01:44 PM
 
1,512 posts, read 1,573,816 times
Reputation: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Really? Well, perhaps you could provide a link to what the Republican's exact reasons and words were about why they were yea or nay on these legislations?
I wouldn't bother because they're politicians: they're masters of BS. Read a dozen Supreme Court decisions and dissents, and you'll discover how masterfully politicians can fudge a topic. I don't get in the fudge; I recognize only action and inaction.

If Americans took the time to read what the Supreme Court writes, I bet its approval ratings would tank.

Quote:
Where is this workplace discimination going on that the Republicans support?
Until Hicks, a corporation, as one would expect, had to prove that it's hiring and promotion decisions (when a member of a protected class was suspiciously passed over) were based on business need. But Hicks made it so that instead of the corporation just having to present it's record, the alleged victim had to come up with "smoking gun" type of evidence. That means that a supervisor might hang a black faced doll in effigy, call it epithets, and throw darts at it, but that wouldn't be enough evidence to prove that race was a factor in promoting an underqualified white person.

Remember: a corporation has a responsibility to make money, so hiring the best candidate is in its best interest too.

It was Republican Supreme Court appointees who were responsible for this change, and they ignored precedent to do it. Further, both Reagan and Bush 41 opposed expanding civil rights legislation.

The Republicans are an enemy to minorities.

Quote:
Speaking of discrimination, English speaking white and black Americans are being discriminated against in hiring practices if they don't speak Spanish. Where is your outrage over that?
That's discrimination based on qualifications. I have no quarrel with a person not being hired for lack of necessary skills.

Quote:
The Democrats are pandering to Hispanics (another minority group) for votes and don't mind that illegals aliens are taking our jobs and raping our tax coffers.
I guess the Republicans should have thought about the consequences of turning their back on the African American vote. You chose evil; now, you will reap what you sowed.

Maybe if the Republicans changed tack to an authentically good platform, America wouldn't be going down.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 02:12 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,508,828 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Homogenizer View Post
I wouldn't bother because they're politicians: they're masters of BS. Read a dozen Supreme Court decisions and dissents, and you'll discover how masterfully politicians can fudge a topic. I don't get in the fudge; I recognize only action and inaction.

If Americans took the time to read what the Supreme Court writes, I bet its approval ratings would tank.



Until Hicks, a corporation, as one would expect, had to prove that it's hiring and promotion decisions (when a member of a protected class was suspiciously passed over) were based on business need. But Hicks made it so that instead of the corporation just having to present it's record, the alleged victim had to come up with "smoking gun" type of evidence. That means that a supervisor might hang a black faced doll in effigy, call it epithets, and throw darts at it, but that wouldn't be enough evidence to prove that race was a factor in promoting an underqualified white person.

Remember: a corporation has a responsibility to make money, so hiring the best candidate is in its best interest too.

It was Republican Supreme Court appointees who were responsible for this change, and they ignored precedent to do it. Further, both Reagan and Bush 41 opposed expanding civil rights legislation.

The Republicans are an enemy to minorities.



That's discrimination based on qualifications. I have no quarrel with a person not being hired for lack of necessary skills.



I guess the Republicans should have thought about the consequences of turning their back on the African American vote. You chose evil; now, you will reap what you sowed.

Maybe if the Republicans changed tack to an authentically good platform, America wouldn't be going down.
It shouldn't be a qualification to speak Spanish to get a job in this country to accomodate non-assimilating Hispanics and/or illegal alien Spanish speakers. That isn't "qualifications" that is discrimination and pandering for a buck. Your fellow black Americans are being displaced by cheap, illegal labor but I guess you don't care about that? Obama and the Democrats want them to remain here aka amnesty and continue to hold American jobs that are affecting less educated and poor whites and blacks. In otherwords they are throwing poor black and white Americans under the bus for votes from Hispanics.

If you think the reasons that the Republicans state why they have advocated for certain legislations/policies are based on racism then there is nothing I can say to change your mind. I find that GOP haters never do. You calling them evil makes my case. No sense in you and I having any more dialogue about this.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 02:24 PM
 
1,512 posts, read 1,573,816 times
Reputation: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Your fellow black Americans are being displaced by cheap, illegal labor but I guess you don't care about that?
I don't.

Quote:
If you think the reasons that the Republicans state why they have advocated for certain legislations/policies are based on racism then there is nothing I can say to change your mind.
What makes your response ridiculous is that I've extended to you a very reasonable explanation, but you're as closed-minded as you accuse me of being. The difference between our positions is that my argument is clear for you to accept or reject, but your argument requires that African Americans accept your benevolent judgment without knowing why.

In my opinion, you have a very severe problem.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
6,757 posts, read 3,394,234 times
Reputation: 2821
I don't hold state rights as the holy bible of running this country.
I'm not afraid of gov't oversight and regulation, even if it costs me money.
I don't believe that market is the solution for anything that should be universal.

If the Republican Party didn't oppose those three points, I could be an Independent.
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