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Old 10-13-2012, 05:02 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,908,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Who is being "forced" to take vaccines?
The comment was aimed at the poster's continued statement advocating forced vaccination. Just go look at his post.

 
Old 10-13-2012, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,440 posts, read 28,306,241 times
Reputation: 29041
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
The comment was aimed at the poster's continued statement advocating forced vaccination. Just go look at his post.
Which poster?

No one is "forced" to take a vaccine.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 05:08 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,908,227 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Which poster?

No one is "forced" to take a vaccine.
Comments like this. He has stated such in this thread multiple times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post
Forced injection, unless you have a specific allergy, is what is called for.

not doing so is a bit like everyone staying underground because you could, just maybe, get hit in the head by a meteorite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post

It really is only by force (i.e a requirement to start school, daycare, etc) that we can strive to protect our children from these zealots and idelogoues. I would say write your senator

but trying to talk science to a fanatic.. .usually gets you nowhere. They just make up their own facts and ponder why YOU can't see it. . .If only YOU can give up your rationale and critical thinking YOU too could be an anti-vac
 
Old 10-13-2012, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,440 posts, read 28,306,241 times
Reputation: 29041
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Of course it is impossible to defeat a mythical belief ... as we have thousands of years of mythical beliefs which have endured the test of time, which testify to that reality. Likewise, it is impossible to effectively address every aspect of a systematic fraud of such a magnitude, that has continued for the better part of 150 years. That's a lot of time to dig in, and become well entrenched.

Nevertheless, the centerpieces of the vaccine industry such as polio, as well as the mother of all vaccine technology, Smallpox vaccine, are actually constructed on foundations of sand, if facts and truth were to enjoy any relative popularity in comparison with the myths.

Polio for example, much to the pure disbelief of the masses so deliberately deceived all their lives with lies and propaganda, was one of the most mild infectious diseases ever to be identified by medical science. Of course such a statement draws snickers from the crowd who's minds are emblazoned with images of wheelchairs and leg braces, who believe that was the inevitable outcome for anyone so unfortunate to become exposed to the virus. But the truth is quite the opposite. The number of cases resulting in paralysis were miniscule in comparison with the massive numbers of the population suspected of being infected (est. 60% infection rate if my recollection is accurate)... with 90% of those infected with Polio never experiencing a single symptom!! The majority of those that did become symptomatic, suffered nothing more than VERY minor "flu" symptoms, which quickly passed without complication or need of treatment. This characterizes the fraudulent propaganda tactics of the vaccine industry dating back to it's early days, as it deliberately created this image of polio as a mortal threat not unlike the bubonic plague, while nothing could have been further from the truth.

The fact is, in the United States, there is not a single case of polio that has occurred since the 1950's that was not attributable to the vaccine itself, before it's discontinuation. And the truth is, polio vaccine did not eradicate polio as it is so repeatedly claimed, but was self eradicated as a self limiting infection due to it's mildness coupled with it's rapid burnout. If anything, polio vaccine extended it's life cycle for years.

Smallpox vaccination, on the other hand, is an even a greater hoax, in that for over 100 years, it used the cowpox virus as it's active ingredient, which is a distinctly separate virus than that of the actual smallpox virus ... meaning it could never have been effective, from day one, given that antibody production against one virus is totally useless against a different virus, or so the mechanisms of immunology are said to work, with one exception ..... yes indeedy ... smallpox. While the science of the time had no way of differentiating between viruses', modern science can, and once this error was discovered, the vaccine industry needed an answer to this highly troublesome fly in the ointment. So a very elaborate story was concocted defining how in this one unique instance, these separate viruses were closely enough "related", which allowed the vaccine to work!! And there are explanations which incorporate a massively contrived amount of techno-babble to convince the masses of the legitimacy of such contradictory claims, because ... they had no choice in oder to defend the crown jewel of the vaccine world from being forever exposed as the great fraud that it was.

The truth of smallpox vaccination is not one of cure and eradication as is the historical claim ... but of the spread of death and devastation everywhere smallpox vaccination programs were deployed, with vaccinated population segments suffering obscenely higher rates of death, in comparison to unvaccinated segments. The problems were so obvious, that there were massive revolts by an outraged public which eventually forced European governments to abandon their mandatory vaccination programs.

There is much more to this story, but the bottom line is, vaccination represents perhaps the greatest medical hoax ever perpetrated in history, and the medical cartel's total control over medical delivery and government regulation in this country obviously extends to the power to control that which is allowed in the history books.
If polio and smallpox just disappeared all by themselves, why did that happen only in countries where vaccines were used?

What "death and devastation" spread everywhere smallpox vaccine was used? Do you have a reference for "obscenely higher" death rates in vaccine recipients?

Which countries have abandoned vaccination programs?

Oh my, those pesky, pesky facts.

There's a vaccine for plague, by the way.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,440 posts, read 28,306,241 times
Reputation: 29041
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Again, no cause and effect study related to vaccination and autism, just the Denmark study already discussed. "We" don't make vaccines for serious illness only. We have a vaccination for the flu... of course, the flu can be serious in certain populations, but most people would not regard the flu as a "serious" illness. It can also be prevented with vitamin D. So "we" do not just produce vaccines that people need to prevent serious diseases. And some vaccines will not be significantly more effective no matter how many boosters you give. I don't know what medical facilities you have worked in, but I have rarely seen a physician have someone sign an informed consent for DTaP and explain exactly what they are getting. Again, maybe in a perfect would people would get their informed consent in 30 languages, but in reality it rarely happens, at least not in the hospital setting.

Giving someone who is sufficiently immune to a disease a vaccination for that disease will not help them. It wasn't my opinion that adults don't need the pertussis vaccines, it is a fact that a person who is sufficiently immune to pertussis does not need a pertussis vaccine. You can't get a single pertussis vaccine. You can, theoretically, get a single tetanus vaccine, but I have never seen one in practice.
There is no simple, inexpensive way to determine who is immune to pertussis and who is not. Testing antibody titers is not cost effective.

If you do not want to take pertussis vaccine, do not.

Good medical practice is to recommend boosters.

Signing an informed consent is not the same as handing out a vaccine information sheet.

Few vaccines are given in hospitals. They still need to use the information sheet.

Vitamin D will not prevent influenza.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 06:11 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,908,227 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Do you have any support for the notion that "most" people reading this have been exposed to HIV in the manner you describe? I doubt it.

You keep putting forth your opinions as if they are facts.

Your assumption is that the only time the immune system is responding to an infectious organism is when we have symptoms such as a fever. That is not true. The vast majority of the time, the threat is dealt with without any symptoms at all.

Also, many people take vaccines and have no symptoms at all. None. Zilch. The vaccine still works.

The number of antigens in a vaccine is far fewer than what we are exposed to daily. It is quantifiable fact. It does not matter whether the antigen is inhaled, ingested, or injected. No matter the route of administration of an antigen there is a final common pathway with exposure to the immune system. Eat it, and it is exposed to immune cells in the gut. and the bloodstream. Inhale it and it is exposed to immune cells in the respiratory tract and the bloodstream. Inject it and it is exposed to the bloodstream. Oral polio vaccine is more immunogenic than injected inactivated vaccine. The live oral vaccine has a small risk of causing polio symptoms. Both do work. So your idea that there is something inherently wrong with injecting a vaccine is missing the mark. The fact is that injected vaccines work.
I did not interpret what he said in the way you did, quite the opposite. He in fact, specifically mentioned a graduated immune response.

You seem to be implying that all exposure is the same. What we are learning about the digestive system alone is much beyond what we once did. The immune system, is just that "a system". It is far more complex and intelligent than once thought.

If all you are looking for is an anti-body being produced, why not test for these? Cost can come down for anything once it becomes a volume situation.

Your statements seem to imply it is all about the anti-bodies. If this is believed to be all you are looking for, why not test? Also you have no way to know what everyone is exposed to daily, way too many variables in that scenario. In fact, there is a whole lot of faith taken in what is even in the vaccine. You wouldn't know unless you actually examined the vaccine.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 06:17 PM
 
9,105 posts, read 5,618,729 times
Reputation: 3852
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
What the vaccine compensation system does is allow people who are truly harmed by vaccines to be compensated. The amount received is fair and reduces the legal costs of having to sue someone. Everyone who has a known complication can apply. This includes people who would never have filed a suit.
Really? So you are prepared to abandon your insistence that vaccines causing real damage is just a conspiracy theory, then? And, if so, just what pray tell is a child's life worth, Suzy-Q ? 100 Grand? A Million dollars? How much do you feel is "fair" compensation for a ruined life, which often destroys entire families? You know what ... I find your attitude and insinuations to be extremely offensive and egregiously callous to an unspeakable degree of depravity bordering on psychopathic.

Let me straighten out your silly misconceptions and rather disgusting attitude of pricing children by the pound here ... by informing you that civil litigation for harms inflicted are designed NOT JUST to "fairly compensate" the damaged party, but to penalize the offender to the extent that they might not continue their criminally negligent behavior, in effort to prevent future harm to future potential victims!!!!!!

If you were the least bit interested or concerned about innocent children, I wouldn't have to explain this to you. But time and again, the members of our compassionate medical community leave me breathless in disgust, and thoroughly nauseated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You do not get to be compensated for something that is not due to vaccines. That includes autism.
The kangaroo vaccine court has demonstrated a pattern of very clever tactics to avoid any precedent establishing culpability of vaccines as a causative factor in autism, by whom and how they award damages, and which cases they rule against. It doesn't take long for savvy attorneys to recognize successful approaches versus those which consistently fail to achieve desired results, so the attorneys representing clients seeking damage compensation will self censor their complaints and tactics to avoid those "pitfalls" ... such as direct allegations that the vaccine caused a condition labeled "Autism". They realize that this very word is offensive in the eyes of the court, so this term will be avoided, and other terms like neurological impairment will instead be used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Note that no one has to show that a complication is due to a "defective" vaccine. Adverse reactions and complications do not mean a vaccine is "defective."
Note that this is the primary purpose of creating this separate extra-judicial entity outside the mainstream justice system referred to as the "Vaccine Court" in order to sequester the subject of vaccine defectiveness, and limit the exposure of this damage being inflicted to a highly controlled environment. The powers behind this FRAUD find it much less effort to control this environment, rather than allowing the matter to escape confinement, and spreading across the entire justice system which would severely compromise that level of control.

The underside of this beast reveals it's true nature ... to extend even greater cover to pharmaceutical corporations, by never actually admitting direct culpability, while attributing damages to "preexisting conditions" which the vaccine may have inadvertently helped to trigger. The insinuation is that these very delicate and rare conditions do sometimes exist, which the medical community cannot possibly predict, and though it is truly unfortunate, blame mother nature, not Merck Pharmaceutical, who are just doing their best to protect the children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Would you sue Bayer because you had a serious adverse reaction to its aspirin, say a bleeding ulcer?
Funny you should use Bayer as an example, given that Bayer was caught distributing medications it knew was contaminated with HIV. So, they pulled the US distribution of the tainted material and knowingly shipped it overseas for use, all the while knowing that they were condemning the unsuspecting to a certain death sentence in so doing. The FDA was also well aware of the situation, and looked the other way. Of course these are the corporate entities and government regulators for which people like you defend, and implore everyone to "trust" that they wouldn't ever intentionally distribute harmful products.

So, what is your problem? Compromised integrity or degraded intelligence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Would that mean aspirin is a "defective" product? Is peanut butter a defective product because some people are allergic to peanuts?
This little quip of yours really does get down to the nitty gritty bare bones of the matter. Given that we know that there exists a percentage of the population at large that suffer such allergies to "peanut butter", would you think it reasonable and legitimate to force everyone to consume peanut butter because you have taken it upon yourself to decide that the general nutritional benefits of peanut butter outweighs the damage that will certainly be inflicted upon those who's allergic response is guaranteed to occur?

Who the frack do you think you are, anyway? Where do you believe you derive the authority to casually dismiss those who are guaranteed to suffer based on your unilateral decision to label them as expendable? Where does such psychopathic arrogance, and a complete absence of any form of rationality, human compassion and integrity come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Wakefield was a fraud. His sole goal was to sell his own vaccine.
No .. he was exposing the frauds, just as I am doing.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 06:18 PM
 
52,003 posts, read 41,844,208 times
Reputation: 32447
Wakefield got 1/2 million from trial lawyers and didn't disclose it.

Just gonna add this to the thread over and over since claud adn the rest of the trial lawyer shills keep ignoring it and trying to ignore it......
 
Old 10-13-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
11,214 posts, read 6,527,081 times
Reputation: 10794
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Do you have any support for the notion that "most" people reading this have been exposed to HIV in the manner you describe? I doubt it.

You keep putting forth your opinions as if they are facts.

Your assumption is that the only time the immune system is responding to an infectious organism is when we have symptoms such as a fever. That is not true. The vast majority of the time, the threat is dealt with without any symptoms at all.

Also, many people take vaccines and have no symptoms at all. None. Zilch. The vaccine still works.

The number of antigens in a vaccine is far fewer than what we are exposed to daily. It is quantifiable fact. It does not matter whether the antigen is inhaled, ingested, or injected. No matter the route of administration of an antigen there is a final common pathway with exposure to the immune system. Eat it, and it is exposed to immune cells in the gut. and the bloodstream. Inhale it and it is exposed to immune cells in the respiratory tract and the bloodstream. Inject it and it is exposed to the bloodstream. Oral polio vaccine is more immunogenic than injected inactivated vaccine. The live oral vaccine has a small risk of causing polio symptoms. Both do work. So your idea that there is something inherently wrong with injecting a vaccine is missing the mark. The fact is that injected vaccines work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
There is no simple, inexpensive way to determine who is immune to pertussis and who is not. Testing antibody titers is not cost effective.

If you do not want to take pertussis vaccine, do not.

Good medical practice is to recommend boosters.

Signing an informed consent is not the same as handing out a vaccine information sheet.

Few vaccines are given in hospitals. They still need to use the information sheet.

Vitamin D will not prevent influenza.
HIV was just an example, it doesn't matter which pathogen you are talking about, the point is that the immune system does not mount a strong systemic response to most things that it encounters. Again, if it did, many more people would test positive for various pathogens, including HIV and other diseases. You develop antibodies after significant exposure. Again, that's why you need a relatively high dose of vaccine antigen injected into your system. Where it's true that not everyone develops symptoms, many people do. And if your body responded to everything with the same vigor it responds to vaccines with, people would be sick much of the time. The fact is that the body does not respond as vigorously to most things, I thought you would know this. And route of exposure does matter, it significantly matters. Your body won't develop immunity to tetanus if you swallow the vaccine. You probably won't get HIV if infected saliva comes in contact with your mucous membranes. Route of entry and exposure matter. Vaccines need to find their way into the blood stream or deep tissue so your body produces a strong enough, systemic immune response to develop a sufficient number of memory cells and create immunity. Otherwise, vaccines would be swallowed in a pill and be at the tiniest dose possible. That's simply not the way the immune system works. Just because a pathogen touches some part of your body doesn't mean that the body reacts with a system response and produces a significant number of antibodies and memory cells.

It amazes me that you and other pro-vaccine people harp on some of the anti-vaccine people and imply that they are close-minded and ignorant to science, yet you deny the fact that vitamin D has been shown to be very effective in reducing the rate of influenza:

Randomized trial of vitamin D supplementation... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

Vitamin D is a flu fighter | Biomedicine | Science News

Vitamin D proven far better than vaccines at preventing influenza infections

Low Vitamin D Levels Linked to Colds

You have vaccine dogma, and won't even acknowledge that a benign vitamin is effective in fighting the flu because you would rather have people just take the vaccine.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,440 posts, read 28,306,241 times
Reputation: 29041
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
I did not interpret what he said in the way you did, quite the opposite. He in fact, specifically mentioned a graduated immune response.

You seem to be implying that all exposure is the same. What we are learning about the digestive system alone is much beyond what we once did. The immune system, is just that "a system". It is far more complex and intelligent than once thought.

If all you are looking for is an anti-body being produced, why not test for these? Cost can come down for anything once it becomes a volume situation.

Your statements seem to imply it is all about the anti-bodies. If this is believed to be all you are looking for, why not test? Also you have no way to know what everyone is exposed to daily, way too many variables in that scenario. In fact, there is a whole lot of faith taken in what is even in the vaccine. You wouldn't know unless you actually examined the vaccine.
The point is that there is nothing wrong about injecting a vaccine. It is just one way to present the antigen to the immune system. The dose is calculated to produce the desired effect.

The cost of testing for antibodies to all of the diseases for which there are vaccines would massively exceed the costs of the vaccines themselves. The cost of a blood test will be measured in dollars, compared to pennies for a vaccine.

I do not understand your comment about examining the vaccine. The manufacturer can tell us exactly what is in it and how much.

Here's an idea of what we are exposed to.

Do Children Get Too Many Immunizations? The Answer is No.
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