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Old 10-14-2012, 11:13 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,906,325 times
Reputation: 1114

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Actually, a good deal of the tax money for schools comes from people who do not have children in the schools. Folks who choose private schools or homeschooling for reasons not related to vaccines still pay taxes.

Should someone who sends his child to private school not pay school taxes? Someone whose children are adults? People who are childless?

I fail to see what the market has to do with choice to vaccinate.

The people who set school policy are by and large elected. They are your neighbors. You consider them a "mob"?

If you want to change policy on school vaccine exemption, elect people who feel as you do.
Yeah, I am aware of how it works. I think people have a right to their money, period. They get to choose where it goes. In practice I realize it works quite differently.

The market definitely has to do with any product. My reference was in regard to your reverence for what appeared to be an ideal of the rights of the majority over the minority. In the market majority has value. In society it is mob rule. No I do not consider my neighbors a mob. I do not value the majority over the minority as you apparently do, however.

Nor do I know that any vaccination legislature locally has been voted on. Doesn't mean there isn't any. Many govt employees that dictate to others are administrative, they are not elected. Much model legislature comes through organizations such as ALEC. Since HAVA electronic voting has ruined any hope of a "real" election anyway, but that is another topic, as is ALEC.

 
Old 10-14-2012, 11:28 PM
 
3,040 posts, read 2,187,515 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
.....and your level of education is?

Seems like we have a bunch of cranks, 12-grade educated (being generous) house wives and celebrities with big boobs (oh wait, Jenny McCarthy abandoned ship after Wakefield got busted for FRAUD.)

All these people that *surprise* are also afraid of the UN taking our guns, chem trails, fake moon landings, 9-11 hoaxes, bigfoot, faked moon landings, katrina fema camps, nuclear wheapon tests under washington DC and so forth (if you doubt this check posters past history)
My level of education has nothing to do with my ability to think for myself.

One thing we all got as kids going back decades is the Vaccines.
The age of diagnosis is not long after kids have their shots.
For the past few decades Autism has been on the rise.

What could have changed??

Two things,
Vaccines or what ever is going into our over processed food.

Why do I call vaccines?
Just look at Donald Rumsfelds fiasco with Tamiflu.

Funny how you dont hear about the Swine flu now huh?....
And they say it wasn't created purposely...Bet ol Donald's bank account says otherwise.
 
Old 10-14-2012, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,437 posts, read 28,289,218 times
Reputation: 29025
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
The only way to substantiate your stated logic, regarding a proper response, is to test for it. Otherwise you are assuming. Assumption is not normally referred to as a fact. To "prove" a vaccine "worked" for an individual, yes you would need some kind of test, otherwise you are assuming. I can't even believe you would make such a statement. In the end you could still get sick.
Efficacy for a vaccine is not based on titers. It is based on how many people get sick --- or not --- after they take it.

A child who is susceptible to chicken pox has a 90% chance of catching it if he is exposed.

A child who is vaccinated has a 90% chance of not catching it.

A child who is not vaccinated is 9 times more likely to get sick.

Of the 10% who are vaccinated who do get sick, the illness will usually be less severe.

These are facts. They are derived from counting cases.

The ability of the vaccine to cause the recipient to make antibodies was measured during the testing of the vaccine. About 97% of the kids given the vaccine make antibodies. That means you would have to do 100 antibody tests to find 3 kids who did not respond to the vaccine.

There is no point doing the test because 97 times out of hundred, the antibodies are there. It would be a waste of resources.

Last edited by suzy_q2010; 10-14-2012 at 11:50 PM..
 
Old 10-14-2012, 11:38 PM
 
3,040 posts, read 2,187,515 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Efficacy for a vaccine is not based on titers. It is based on how many people get sick --- or not --- after they take it.

A child who is susceptible to chicken pox has a 90% chance of catching it if he is exposed.

A child who is vaccinated has a 90% (chance of not catching it.

A child who is not vaccinated is 9 times more likely to get sick.

Of the 10% who are vaccinated who do get sick, the illness will usually be less severe.

These are facts. They are derived from counting cases.

The ability of the vaccine to cause the recipient to make antibodies was measured during the testing of the vaccine. About 97% of the kids given the vaccine make antibodies. That means you would have to do 100 antibody tests to find 3 kids who did not respond to the vaccine.

There is no point doing the test because 97 times out of hundred, the antibodies are there. It would be a waste of resources.
I don't think anyone is saying the vaccines are unnecessary. I think the point is more about whats changed. The ingredients in them. Or the process. Something has changed.
 
Old 10-14-2012, 11:45 PM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,906,325 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Efficacy for a vaccine is not based on titers. It is based on how many people get sick --- or not --- after they take it.

A child who is susceptible to chicken pox has a 90% chance of catching it if he is exposed.

A child who is vaccinated has a 90% (chance of not catching it.

A child who is not vaccinated is 9 times more likely to get sick.

Of the 10% who are vaccinated who do get sick, the illness will usually be less severe.

These are facts. They are derived from counting cases.

The ability of the vaccine to cause the recipient to make antibodies was measured during the testing of the vaccine. About 97% of the kids given the vaccine make antibodies. That means you would have to do 100 antibody tests to find 3 kids who did not respond to the vaccine.

There is no point doing the test because 97 times out of hundred, the antibodies are there. It would be a waste of resources.
These presumably are facts. Based on a given scenario. This has lead to a conclusion. However, it still doesn't support what you stated as fact. My comments were directly aimed at your specific claims, nothing more.
 
Old 10-14-2012, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,437 posts, read 28,289,218 times
Reputation: 29025
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Yeah, I am aware of how it works. I think people have a right to their money, period. They get to choose where it goes. In practice I realize it works quite differently.

The market definitely has to do with any product. My reference was in regard to your reverence for what appeared to be an ideal of the rights of the majority over the minority. In the market majority has value. In society it is mob rule. No I do not consider my neighbors a mob. I do not value the majority over the minority as you apparently do, however.

Nor do I know that any vaccination legislature locally has been voted on. Doesn't mean there isn't any. Many govt employees that dictate to others are administrative, they are not elected. Much model legislature comes through organizations such as ALEC. Since HAVA electronic voting has ruined any hope of a "real" election anyway, but that is another topic, as is ALEC.
If you are unaware of what is going on in your own school district, you really do not have any right to complain about it.

Here , the school board is elected. The board determines policy. If we do not like policies, we can vote the old board out. That's the way it works. The composition of the board reflects the will of the people in the community. That's me and my neighbors. No mob involved.
 
Old 10-15-2012, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,437 posts, read 28,289,218 times
Reputation: 29025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean71 View Post
I don't think anyone is saying the vaccines are unnecessary. I think the point is more about whats changed. The ingredients in them. Or the process. Something has changed.
Welcome to the discussion.

There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism. Unvaccinated kids get it, too. There is probably a large genetic component to autism.

I know it's a long thread, but those who have been here for a while would appreciate your reading the entire thing before you comment further. That way we will not rehash things that have already been addressed.
 
Old 10-15-2012, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,437 posts, read 28,289,218 times
Reputation: 29025
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
These presumably are facts. Based on a given scenario. This has lead to a conclusion. However, it still doesn't support what you stated as fact. My comments were directly aimed at your specific claims, nothing more.
They are facts about chicken pox and chicken pox vaccine.

The same applies to other vaccines.

When they are developed, the people in the studies to show the vaccine works have antibody levels tested. The vaccinated people are then followed to see whether they catch the disease they have been vaccinated against. The antibody levels are done as a research tool.

Then they can determine how effective the vaccine is in the real world.

There is no need to check antibody levels after that. It would be enormously expensive, costing way more than the vaccine itself.

Rubella antibody titers are about the only ones routinely done, in women who want to get pregnant.
 
Old 10-15-2012, 12:20 AM
 
8,487 posts, read 5,906,325 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
If you are unaware of what is going on in your own school district, you really do not have any right to complain about it.

Here , the school board is elected. The board determines policy. If we do not like policies, we can vote the old board out. That's the way it works. The composition of the board reflects the will of the people in the community. That's me and my neighbors. No mob involved.
I am not complaining. I stated my views. This is not complaining. Nor did I say I had no idea what was going on in my school district. If by will of the people you mean majority, maybe so. Maybe not. There is much that could be said in regard to this. However, I do not wish to derail the topic. That said still doesn't mean individual rights should take a back seat to a majority.
 
Old 10-15-2012, 01:16 AM
 
Location: California
30,702 posts, read 33,490,466 times
Reputation: 26130
Quote:
Something has changed.
The entire world has changed yet some focus on vaccines, and only becaues of one bogus scientist. I wonder what we would be blaming if that hadn't happened.
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