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Old 10-06-2012, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,032 posts, read 41,087,048 times
Reputation: 44970

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
The problem here is money and conflict of interest. You cannot be sure of accurate reporting.

Also people used to get single shots now they load them up with mega-multis before they even have an immune system. Not the same animal. The idea behind vaccination is very crude and simply not equal to true immunity. Corporations are having laws basically protect them from liability and far too many are not given true informed consent.

Autism covers a very large area. Many different set of symptoms. People don't eat the same now or live in the same environment as they did in the 50-70s either.

I do think good information is important, but the money is just too enormous here to get unbiased information. Either way people should get to choose.
The idea that infants and children do not have fully functioning immune systems is false. If they did not, they would die. The ideas behind vaccination are actually very elegant, not crude at all, and most vaccines provide lasting immunity. Some are better than others, and some do need periodic boosters.

The laws concerning vaccine liability came about because vaccines manufacturers were quite willing to stop making vaccines. There is just not that much money in them. And the medical establishment could make scads more money treating vaccine preventable diseases than it can by preventing them with vaccines. Vaccines are probably the most cost effective medical intervention in all history.

Every vaccine is accompanied by a Vaccine Information Sheet. There is no reason for anyone to lack true informed consent:

Vaccines: Pubs/VIS/Fact Sheet

 
Old 10-06-2012, 01:15 AM
 
8,483 posts, read 6,917,744 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The idea that infants and children do not have fully functioning immune systems is false. If they did not, they would die. The ideas behind vaccination are actually very elegant, not crude at all, and most vaccines provide lasting immunity. Some are better than others, and some do need periodic boosters.

The laws concerning vaccine liability came about because vaccines manufacturers were quite willing to stop making vaccines. There is just not that much money in them. And the medical establishment could make scads more money treating vaccine preventable diseases than it can by preventing them with vaccines. Vaccines are probably the most cost effective medical intervention in all history.

Every vaccine is accompanied by a Vaccine Information Sheet. There is no reason for anyone to lack true informed consent:

Vaccines: Pubs/VIS/Fact Sheet
This is not false. The immune system evolves. There are many different areas. One being the digestive system.

You do not die because your immune system doesn't function as well as someone else. You are likely to have problems, however. So you think a baby has the same immune system as a healthy adult?

If babies and infants had immune systems as good as healthy adults why is their such an issue with protecting them, because they are more at risk? Do you understand how you are contradicting established understanding?

The money is enormous. How in the world can you say that? A company protected from liability of massive global production? No one should be immune from liability of a product they produce. Glaxo and Merck do quite well. Please.

The true uninformed consent comes from people not asking questions and not reading those enclosed information sheets. Many people never read those sheets.
 
Old 10-06-2012, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,542,487 times
Reputation: 4262
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You seem to have missed the news. Children's vaccines no longer contain mercury. That has not stopped autism.
You lie. Do you have any idea the harm you are causing and the lives you are destroying by spreading misinformation? Have you no shame?

Lastly, vaccine advocates often claim that thimerosal has been removed from vaccinations. However, this is absolutely untrue. While thimerosal-free versions of many vaccines are available by request and the preservative has been removed from many childhood vaccines that are on the CDC recommended childhood vaccination schedule, it has by no means been removed from all or even most vaccines. The H1N1 and regular flu shots contain full amounts of mercury while many other vaccines contain “trace” amounts. That is, they contain less than the usual 25 mcg present in other vaccines containing the “full” amount. Many vaccines contain “trace” amounts of thimerosal that were “left over from the manufacturing process.” (Safeminds) Also, one should be aware that the removal or reduction of thimerosal from childhood vaccines never applied to vaccines that were not on the CDC recommended childhood vaccine schedule. (Safeminds)
While thimerosal receives much of the press when discussing the dangers of vaccination, individuals should be aware that mercury is not the only dangerous substance contained in vaccines. Squalene, aluminum, polysorbate 80, and many others are included in most of these vaccines and are certainly capable of causing harm on their own or in combination. Any patient, especially a parent, should be aware of the risks and dangers associated with vaccination and should make their decision accordingly, regardless of the orders of their doctor or the propaganda on their television.


Read more: Mercury in vaccines: “No more dangerous than the mercury in a tuna sandwich” | CriticalUnity.org Mercury in vaccines:
 
Old 10-06-2012, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,488,465 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
By the way, for those that still cling to the belief that the fine Doctor Wakefield was wrong, don't you think it's about time you let that lie go?......Wakefield...you know...get your head out of the sand?
LOL! The "fine doctor" who lost his medical license in Britain and can't get one in the US, because of his fruadulent vaccine/autism studies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
They also die because their parents DID vaccinate them......More than 2,000 vaccinated babies died: The cost of doing business.
More than 2000 vaccinated babies died. . . . of something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
Some anti-vaccine groups know that now, so some of them blame the immune systems inflammatory response to the vaccine as the cause; that it causes inflammation in the brain or nervous system, something along those lines.
Always moving the goalposts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Not sure what you meant here. I was referring to vaccines that are loaded for a variety of diseases. A child gets one shot designed for many different illnesses. Vaccines are not nutrition. They do very different things.

A vaccine is simply designed to trigger anti-bodies. This is a very small part of true immunity to anything.
Actually, antibodies are a large part of true immunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
You lie. Do you have any idea the harm you are causing and the lives you are destroying by spreading misinformation? Have you no shame?

Lastly, vaccine advocates often claim that thimerosal has been removed from vaccinations. However, this is absolutely untrue. While thimerosal-free versions of many vaccines are available by request and the preservative has been removed from many childhood vaccines that are on the CDC recommended childhood vaccination schedule, it has by no means been removed from all or even most vaccines. The H1N1 and regular flu shots contain full amounts of mercury while many other vaccines contain “trace” amounts. That is, they contain less than the usual 25 mcg present in other vaccines containing the “full” amount. Many vaccines contain “trace” amounts of thimerosal that were “left over from the manufacturing process.” (Safeminds) Also, one should be aware that the removal or reduction of thimerosal from childhood vaccines never applied to vaccines that were not on the CDC recommended childhood vaccine schedule. (Safeminds)
While thimerosal receives much of the press when discussing the dangers of vaccination, individuals should be aware that mercury is not the only dangerous substance contained in vaccines. Squalene, aluminum, polysorbate 80, and many others are included in most of these vaccines and are certainly capable of causing harm on their own or in combination. Any patient, especially a parent, should be aware of the risks and dangers associated with vaccination and should make their decision accordingly, regardless of the orders of their doctor or the propaganda on their television.


Read more: Mercury in vaccines: “No more dangerous than the mercury in a tuna sandwich” | CriticalUnity.org Mercury in vaccines:
No, you lie! There are thimerosal-free flu vaccines, including the H1N1 vaccine of 2009. Quit beating a very dead horse with this thimerosal argument.
 
Old 10-06-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,876 posts, read 10,539,064 times
Reputation: 16409
There is some correlational evidence to suggest that vaccination is related to autism, and other evidence suggests that the two are unrelated. Cultures that don't believe in vaccination have very low rates of autism, despite living in a geographical area with high autism rates (ie. Amish Communities), and the onset of childhood autism usually follows a series of vaccinations. However, when a province in Japan banned the MMR vaccine for ten years, the autism rate rose at the same amount as surrounding areas. I think that vaccines can cause ASD in some genetically susceptible children, but probably aren't the cause for the large increase in autism.

But people focus too much on autism when they discuss vaccine policy. In any debate over vaccines you see the typical "Wakefield has been debunked" statement and people move on. The problem is that autism isn't the only potential problem with vaccines. The fact is that vaccines are not "safe". Like any other invasive medical procedure, vaccination has risks. The National Vaccine Injury Program has paid out billions of dollars in settlements for devastating injuries, and those are just the cases that have been definitively linked to vaccination. The government pays vaccine injury cases because the vaccine manufacturers are immune from tort liability for injuries caused by those products (imagine that). There is zero incentive for a manufacturer to make vaccines safe.

Vaccination is also not a "simple" procedure, as many continue to claim. Most vaccinations require an injection, which places a foreign pathogen, along with preservatives, directly inside your body. The vaccination procedure bypasses your body's normal and natural first-line defense barriers (skin, mucous membranes) and injects a pathogen or DNA analog directly into your deep muscle, a very unnatural way for your body to initially encounter a pathogen. Every vaccination has risks: risk of site infection, risk of allergic reaction, nerve damage ect. Just look at those people who died of fungal infection from injections for back pain. That's always a risk with any injection. The scientific community is currently reviewing reports of demyelination caused by the hepatitis B vaccine.

The biggest problem with vaccine policy is that it throws "do no harm" out the window. Vaccine companies mix useful vaccines with useless ones and give them in one shot, to everyone. The medical community should be just as judicious about giving a vaccine as it is about performing any other invasive medical procedure. How many doctors would say that performing an invasive medical procedure on a child who will have little to no benefit from the procedure is a good idea? Not many I suspect. Yet vaccine manufacturers bundle vaccines for pertussis with a vaccine for diphtheria (a treatable disease caused by poor sanitation and almost unheard of in the industrialized world). Vaccination should be limited to people who: 1. will personally benefit from the vaccine; and 2. do not already have evidence of immunity through titers. So if you haven't had a pertussis vaccine in 10 years, but you have titers for pertussis, then there is no need for a "booster". On rare occasion a disease like smallpox comes along, where it is beneficial to vaccinate the entire population and develop herd immunity. But that should be reserved for the most devastating situations.

No one should be forced to give a child an invasive medical procedure just so that the child can obtain an education. The vaccine debate needs to get off "Wakefield" and look at the real costs and benefits of vaccination.
 
Old 10-06-2012, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Elgin, Illinois
1,200 posts, read 1,600,520 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
Not sure what you meant here. I was referring to vaccines that are loaded for a variety of diseases. A child gets one shot designed for many different illnesses. Vaccines are not nutrition. They do very different things.

A vaccine is simply designed to trigger anti-bodies. This is a very small part of true immunity to anything.
Oh sorry, I misread your thread when I read mega multi, vitamins came to mind.
 
Old 10-06-2012, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Elgin, Illinois
1,200 posts, read 1,600,520 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDusr View Post
This is not false. The immune system evolves. There are many different areas. One being the digestive system.

You do not die because your immune system doesn't function as well as someone else. You are likely to have problems, however. So you think a baby has the same immune system as a healthy adult?

If babies and infants had immune systems as good as healthy adults why is their such an issue with protecting them, because they are more at risk? Do you understand how you are contradicting established understanding?

The money is enormous. How in the world can you say that? A company protected from liability of massive global production? No one should be immune from liability of a product they produce. Glaxo and Merck do quite well. Please.

The true uninformed consent comes from people not asking questions and not reading those enclosed information sheets. Many people never read those sheets.
To be fair you said they didn't have an immune system which is false. They do have one though it's not as strong as adults.
 
Old 10-06-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,488,465 times
Reputation: 35920
It is difficult to find any information on the rate of autism in the Amish community. Here is one article I found from any source other than extreme anti-immunization websites:

With apologies for reopening an old discussion– The idea that there is no autism amongst the Amish appears to be a

The Amish have a different cultural approach to health care, and do not use mainstream medicine as much as some others do. Therefore, getting an accurate assessment of the rate of autism in their communities is diffficult, at best.

It does not support the anti-immunization argument to say that the Amish do not have autism. You can find stories about people who might today be considered to have autism in the Bible.
 
Old 10-06-2012, 09:03 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,425,591 times
Reputation: 2485
Its nice to see these guys keep busy, just republishing debunked studies. . .

There is no grand conspiracy. Its just science, and sometimes scientist point to things you don't want to believe.


The Thinking Person's Guide to Autism: Whacking Monkeys In the Name of Science
In spite of what is almost a total absence of study controls in real numbers and in principle, these authors -- a changing cast, I might add -- performed a number of complex statistical analyses with findings that should be disallowed from any perspective because of an utter lack of power. It's inexcusable to report any findings from these kinds of analyses using a control with n = 3. They claim that their multiple measures, etc., validate their findings in spite of the fact that they have only THREE controls: "While, as a pilot study, the size (sic) of the study groups limits the strength of the conclusions that can be drawn, the use of statistical modeling and repeated measures contributed to the study’s power and increased the accuracy of the estimates." No. Take a look at figure 3 of the paper. Take a look at the error bars. Note the error bars for the "unexposed" group and consider that these represent error for THREE individual data points. One. Two. Three. That's all. Three monkeys, and their names are "Hear No Science," "Speak No Science," and "See No Science."


Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
The reason this belongs in politics is because it suggests bias on the part of CDC. Studies like this need to be independent of politics, so we are armed with the truth and can protect children from the real dangers.
Before the usual pro-govt defenders comment, please read the article attached prior to impeaching it.

Learn more: Vaccine bombshell: Baby monkeys given standard doses of popular vaccines develop autism symptoms


 
Old 10-06-2012, 09:06 AM
 
13,513 posts, read 19,235,612 times
Reputation: 16580
Katiana,I guess you had to look long and hard to find one that said what you were hoping they would.....autism is extremely rare in the amish, seems if they bring a child in for a broken limb, or some other problem, THAT is when the hospitals take it upon themselves to vaccinate them to the hilt, and thus, unfortunately , some of these unlucky ones do regress into autism....autism probably has been around for hundreds of years, but it was very rare, not like now where almost 1 in 50 boys and 1-150 girls become autistic after recieving vaccines.........Vaccination Causes Autism
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