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Old 05-21-2012, 07:58 PM
 
1,724 posts, read 1,471,140 times
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This is good stuff: linking Henry VIII to gay marriage. The Goblin King would be impressed by your labyrinth.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:02 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,605,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
I don't see how any of this is a "war on marriage". Either you want to be married or you don't, all the laws and rules in the world can't make one actually work.
And somewhere along the line the idea that a marriage isn't a marriage unless it "actually works" - according to one partner or the other's subjective notion of what works - provided further justification for divorce.

In contrast with the merely practical idea of marriage held by the pagans, Christendom elevated marriage to the level of a sacrament, an ontological reality. The reality exists without regard to how well it works. The beauty of this view is that more marriages end up actually working.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:03 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,203,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
And somewhere along the line the idea that a marriage isn't a marriage unless it "actually works" - according to one partner or the other's subjective notion of what works - provided further justification for divorce.

In contrast with the merely practical idea of marriage held by the pagans, Christendom elevated marriage to the level of a sacrament, an ontological reality. The reality exists without regard to how well it works. The beauty of this view is that more marriages end up actually working.
Well fine, I suppose we could have no divorce but lots of people not living together as man and wife (because they don't like each other you see) and taking up with other people that they like better, but then you would just make marriage irrelevant anyway.

You can't physically make people live together and "make the marriage work". Not with laws, not with anything.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
9,394 posts, read 15,690,230 times
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Who seriously cares?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:05 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,919,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
And somewhere along the line the idea that a marriage isn't a marriage unless it "actually works" - according to one partner or the other's subjective notion of what works - provided further justification for divorce.

In contrast with the merely practical idea of marriage held by the pagans, Christendom elevated marriage to the level of a sacrament, an ontological reality. The reality exists without regard to how well it works. The beauty of this view is that more marriages end up actually working.
Alternatively, the participants might actually like each other.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:07 PM
 
770 posts, read 1,177,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
And somewhere along the line the idea that a marriage isn't a marriage unless it "actually works" - according to one partner or the other's subjective notion of what works - provided further justification for divorce.

In contrast with the merely practical idea of marriage held by the pagans, Christendom elevated marriage to the level of a sacrament, an ontological reality. The reality exists without regard to how well it works. The beauty of this view is that more marriages end up actually working.
And a lot more people end up being miserable. My idea of a marriage working is that the people in it are happy and actually want to stay married. Your idea of a marriage working is that it simply exists.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:11 PM
 
Location: California
37,135 posts, read 42,203,740 times
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What so many people fail to realize is that it is us humans that drive these changes, not an invisible enemy, "liberals", or the boogyman. And the "war" is against something mythical, not something real or practical or workable or enforceable.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:13 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,299,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Same-sex "marriage" is only the latest skirmish. The war against marriage in the West began with the protestant revolt.

1. Luther authorizes divorce for adultery and abandonment. Henry VIII makes a career of it.

2. More reasons are found to legitimize divorce to the point where "no fault" divorce is practically the law of the land.

3. The Church of England authorizes contraception within marriage in extremely limited cases.

4. Once again the exception becomes the rule and contraception is now ubiquitous.

5. Cohabitation gains respectability in the 1970s. Today the practice is almost universal.

6. Same-sex "marriage" is the logical result of dissolving the link between marriage, sex, and procreation.

7. What will be next? One hesitates to ask ...

Human institutions remain viable only for a long as they serve a significant number of humans.

People still want to get married they are just doing it a hell of a lot less than they used ti.

It's a personal choice. For a lot of people in the United States it has less of an appeal than in decades past.

If people want to get married they will continued to get married.

The bottom llne what other people want to do in their personal relationships isn't really any of your damn business.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:15 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,919,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Human institutions remain viable only for a long as they serve a significant number of humans.

People still want to get married they are just doing it a hell of a lot less than they used ti.

It's a personal choice. For a lot of people in the United States it has less of an appeal than in decades past.

If people want to get married they will continued to get married.

The bottom llne what other people want to do in their personal relationships isn't really any of your damn business.
Yeah .. but his imaginary friend tells him it is his business.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:12 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,605,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
It's a personal choice.
It's a "personal choice" that has wide-ranging social effects and impacts the lives of millions. No man is an island, etc.

A society in which the majority of its population shuns traditional marriage and family life is destroying its own foundation and headed for ruin. We're not just reverting to paganism, but rushing past it to barbarism.
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