Stance On Gay Marriage May Cost Rev. His Church (high school, kids, women)
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No, it proves that this congregation was unwilling to sit and listen to their minister blasphem in the form of endorsing same sex marriage. Not agreeing with same sex-marriage as a religious precept does not equate to hating homosexuals no matter how the activist extremists try to paint it as such.
Frankly, IMO, the diocese should have nipped this in the bud and replaced this minister before the congregation chose to find another church.
In the United Church of Christ it is the Congregation and not the denomination that picks the Minister. If the majority of the Congregation opposed him they could have removed him themselves. Plus it was the minister's vote with the majority in the UCC's synod that began the outflow. The congregations in the UCC are not required to support the votes of the synod.
The church began faltering in 2005, when White attended a national UCC assembly in Atlanta and voted with a majority of delegates in favor of a resolution supporting gay marriage. His vote didn't sit well with most of the 320 or so Grace Community Church members.
You don't think a pastor of a congregation should teach the teachings of his own denomination from the pulpit ? That's an interesting approach.
The UCC denomination supports Freedom of the Pulpit. The minister was under no requirement to support the votes of the synod. I respect him more that he preaches his beliefs as opposed to what may or may not be popular with the congregation.
Actually he is following the precepts of Christ, love one another, judge not etc. The United Church of Christ leans towards the progressive end of the theological spectrum and many of their churches are totally open and affirming - i.e. they recognise that gays & lesbians are loved and welcomed int God's family just as much as the hetero's.
No he is not! following the precepts of Christ, or following Jesus in his stance in any way!
Jesus settled this ole fallacy with this scripture. Oh, the folks that lack the truth that try to USE JESUS as an excuse to make homosexuality legitimate and okay with God that are very wrong.
The old Testament is clear that homosexuality is an abomination to God. Here...Jesus made it clear that He totally supports the Old Testament Law, in fullness.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." - Matt 5:17-18
That's wrong on so many levels that I don't know where to start. If you want to belong to a "free church" that isn't part of a denomination, then go for it--there are lots of independent churches out there started up by an unaffiliated pastor that you can join. If your church is affiliated with a denomination, you are a part of it because you follow and support it's teachings.
Your position does not match the polity within the UCC. Congregations and Ministers within the UCC are not dictated to by the National Offices.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
Then why does the Talmud state that no one has ever been charged with a crime related to homosexuality? Do you understand how Jewish law works and why it's impossible to be referring to private, consensual same-sex relationships?
Not all Christians believe that. In fact, the Church itself had an office of Same-sex unions and endorsed them for hundreds of years. Orthodox Jews are changing their stance these days as more and more Rabbis are admitting they are gay. Most Jews overall, however, are gay accepting and don't believe Leviticus condemns gays. Don't forget Lesbians are never condemned in the Torah.
I really wish people who know nothing about the Bible and Jewish law would stop making claims about it.
I heard an interesting saying when I was an undergrad at Brandeis University: "If you ask the same theological question of 3 different rabbis, you will get 5 opinions." The Talmud is centuries of rabbinical teachings ...... it is not considered to be on the same level of inerrancy as the Torah. Of course over a period of millenia, some rabbis are going to stick up for homosexuality, but others didn't. The laws of the Torah concerning homosexual behavior of men (and I DID note earlier that it was not women) are clear enough. It's a sin, don't do it - at least in the time before the Temple was trashed.
Again, this is not MY opinion. I'm perfectly fine with gay marriage and civil unions. But anyone who insists against all evidence that God dictated the Torah should feel bound to obey those laws that are still considered valid in the post-Temple era.
Then heterosexuality is a chosen trait, and there is no reason for the government to discriminate based on their choice.
When did you choose to be hetero? What was involved in that decision making process?
Maybe the question is when was the first time you rejected a gay advance? That was my "choice" to be hetro I suppose.
When we were little kids...There was a very cool grove of very old oak trees - some of them where hollow and you could actually climb into them...Well one day a bunch of us were playing in the grove..I got inside an oak tree..and this slightly older kid got in also...all fun and games...The kid was standing behind me..I looked over my shoulder and looked down- The jerk behind me had his pants down and there was this erect penis pushing against my back...THAT was the moment ....all I could say was - "Let me out of this damned tree"..
I believe that young people are like little animals when left to their own device...what if I was a stupid kid and did not have the wear with all to get out of the hollow oak? Would that moment for another kid be the "gay" moment? Would the dumber kid submitted to the abuse of the older kid?
Maybe those "born" gay as slightly dumber...My question is- where did the older kid learn to even think of such a thing...I suggest that he himself had learned this and was a victim of abuse- so for him in my estimation it was not a choice...it was conditioning...
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