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Old 06-13-2012, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
547 posts, read 1,368,157 times
Reputation: 508

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If libertarians get their wishes then the US will become a feudal society with many warlords and fiefdoms. Since the government will be too small* to actually protect people's rights, the rich will hire their own military force and the poor will have to either work for the rich as pseudo-slaves or risk getting killed.

Humans started off as libertarians. The hunter-gatherer societies started off without civilian rulers and military forces. Yet, why did people submit themselves to governments? Because they wanted to protect themselves from the strong, and the only way to do that is to work for the strong.

Libertarians want to cherry-pick their rights but that's just arbitrary. Why do corporations have rights but not the environment? A government small enough to appease the libertarians will be one that's too small to do anything at all.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:26 AM
 
1,395 posts, read 1,077,916 times
Reputation: 285
2nd amendment........
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,588,323 times
Reputation: 24548
The Second Amendment requires a government to function. Without a strong government the armed corporate gangs will take over and reduce workers to serfs and tenant farmers. The idea is to create a state of slave labor as exists in china and other dumps today. The aristocracy will own all the guns and use them to take any they do not have to start. IMHO a wealth based feudal system is the goal of Corporate America as well as the creation of a corporate world free of all law but with brutally enforced order.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:10 AM
Status: "Rocktober...well that was fast. :-(" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,314 posts, read 10,462,290 times
Reputation: 13262
I think you mean "if anarchists get their way..." Libertarians favor small government but do value order on a level appropriate to ensure society remains somewhat civil. Favoring small government is not the same as favoring no government.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Austin
28,986 posts, read 15,545,072 times
Reputation: 7744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
If libertarians get their wishes then the US will become a feudal society with many warlords and fiefdoms. Since the government will be too small* to actually protect people's rights, the rich will hire their own military force and the poor will have to either work for the rich as pseudo-slaves or risk getting killed. .
That statement quickly shows how little you know about Libertarians. Your statement is exactly opposite to the Libertarian belief. Libertarians believe that one of the few roles of government is to PROTECT the rights of the people from both internal and external threats. ALL of the people, regardless of race, sex or wealth.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:17 AM
 
10,715 posts, read 11,421,703 times
Reputation: 4752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
That statement quickly shows how little you know about Libertarians. Your statement is exactly opposite to the Libertarian belief. Libertarians believe that one of the few roles of government is to PROTECT the rights of the people from both internal and external threats. ALL of the people, regardless of race, sex or wealth.
It depends on whom you speak to. Many are just closet anarchists.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Austin
28,986 posts, read 15,545,072 times
Reputation: 7744
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The Second Amendment requires a government to function. Without a strong government the armed corporate gangs will take over and reduce workers to serfs and tenant farmers.
Correct. That's why Libertarians believe that we MUST have a government to protect the people. That is the most important role of government. The OP is totally ignorant on this topic.


Libertarian philosophy as we know it today has its roots in the classical liberalism of European political philosophers whose writings inspired the post-revolutionary governments of the United States and France during the latter years of the 18th century. The basic tenets of this classical liberalism are very simple:
  1. The legitimate purpose of government is to protect the rights of its citizens.
  2. People have a right to be left alone and live their own lives as long as they do not do so in a way that infringes on others' right to do the same.
Libertarian Definition - What is a Libertarian
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:21 AM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,074,424 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
If libertarians get their wishes then the US will become a feudal society with many warlords and fiefdoms. Since the government will be too small* to actually protect people's rights, the rich will hire their own military force and the poor will have to either work for the rich as pseudo-slaves or risk getting killed.

Humans started off as libertarians. The hunter-gatherer societies started off without civilian rulers and military forces. Yet, why did people submit themselves to governments? Because they wanted to protect themselves from the strong, and the only way to do that is to work for the strong.

Libertarians want to cherry-pick their rights but that's just arbitrary. Why do corporations have rights but not the environment? A government small enough to appease the libertarians will be one that's too small to do anything at all.
You've taken the argument way too far. It would take 100+ years of extreme Libertarianism to get the United States back anywhere near Feudalism.

Ain't gonna happen.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Austin
28,986 posts, read 15,545,072 times
Reputation: 7744
Quote:
Originally Posted by TempesT68 View Post
It depends on whom you speak to. Many are just closet anarchists.
Then they are not Libertarians.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,321,476 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkiel View Post
If libertarians get their wishes then the US will become a feudal society with many warlords and fiefdoms. Since the government will be too small* to actually protect people's rights, the rich will hire their own military force and the poor will have to either work for the rich as pseudo-slaves or risk getting killed.

Humans started off as libertarians. The hunter-gatherer societies started off without civilian rulers and military forces. Yet, why did people submit themselves to governments? Because they wanted to protect themselves from the strong, and the only way to do that is to work for the strong.

Libertarians want to cherry-pick their rights but that's just arbitrary. Why do corporations have rights but not the environment? A government small enough to appease the libertarians will be one that's too small to do anything at all.
I don't see it that way. The feudal system that came into place after the fall of the Roman empire wasn't libertarian, it was very restrictive.

You couldn't own land. If you wanted to do something, you had to ask permission of the "lord" before you did it, etc.

That isn't liberty, and it isn't what libertarians support. In essence, libertarians think the best of people, just like communism does. Libertarians believe that people, left to their own devices, will always work hard, always do the right thing, businesses would never pollute because it would harm them in the end, right? Just like communists base their philosophy on saying that people aren't lazy, and everyone will work as hard as they can, all the time. This simply isn't the case.

But the United States goal is to be a "free" country. One thing is for certain, we aren't "free" anymore, and it would take a libertarian uprising to get us back to that. I would rather take my own future, into my own hands, instead of relying on those idiots in Washington. I think that government has a large regulatory role, for pollutions, solving interstate disputes, etc. But it has no place playing world police, it has no business telling free humans what they can and can't put into their bodies, they have no business telling a private business owner who they must serve, and what they must serve.
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