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Old 06-22-2012, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
Then you haven't been listening. Several plan were discussed, the primary one being allowing insurance companies to cross state lines, and offer insurance in multiple states, Increased competition, drives down prices.

It's too bad that your listening with your ears covered, or you would have heard that plan and several other items discussed.
THEY don't want there to be anything because they don't understand that for the House to pass anything would result in in another tabled bill in the Senate. Many of them don't understand, at all, that Dirty Harry isn't really looking out for any of us.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
With a Govt. funded health system (UHC) the Govt. DOES stay out of private health care.
A Govt. funded health system is EXACTLY that............. Govt. funded NOT Govt. run.
The Health professionals control your health needs and not DEO's who put your Wallet before your health needs.
With a Govt. funded health care system you remove the work place from your health care needs and they become two entirely separate entities meaning that your employer needs only to worry about your salary and NOT giving you a health plan....... this works and works extremely well to the advantage of employers and employees.
We hear some on here whinging about having to pay for other peoples health care....... NEWSFLASH........ WE now pay for other peoples health care and in fact we now pay far more for the heath care of illegals under the present system than for American citizens and we ever would pay with a UHC...... we would be paying for the health care of ALL American Citizens and ALL of our loved ones with a small health tax.
We now pay SS payments AND Medicare payments from our pay check AND expensive short term health Insurance already with a extremely limited and costly Insurance Premiums........... That is NOT good for America but extremely lucrative for Insurance companies, Doctors, Pharmaceutical companies and owners of medical testing companies........... we are being ripped off everyday by the medical profession and we are expected to say thank you. I have used both systems.......... Govt. funded and Insurance based .... the Govt. funded system wins hands down by a mile. I recently found how much of a rip off the current health system in the USA is when my wife went to our Doctor and was told she might have Pneumonia or even meningitis and that we should go immediately to the ER..... that diagnosis alone cost us $200.
We then went to the ER.... waited over 5 hours in the waiting room and then we were seen by a Doctor who gave her a blood test, scan and test for pneumonia ( a swab of her nose). We were in the cubicle for 4 hours and when we were told the price, it was $6,500 but if we paid immediately then 75% of the bill would be taken away. WHAT A RIP OFF........ if we can pay around $1600 by paying NOW why wasn't we charged $1600 anyway??????????????????????. Doctors also repeat tests so they can charge over and over for the same tests...... WHAT A RIP OFF. This MUST change not maybe but DEFINITELY!
A Govt. funded health system is free at point of use for everyone. Is cheaper than the Insurance premiums. NO copays etc. Gives far more access and choice to see Doctors everywhere in the USA for everyone no matter where you move to or are staying. Does NOT distinguish between people with money or no money, people who have pre conditions or no pre conditions, covers EVERYONE from before birth to the day they die. Does NOT allow men in suits to decide our health needs. lowers the prices of medicines AND because of the competition between a Govt. health system and the private health companies.... drastically LOWERS the premiums and improves the service by Private Insurance health schemes. There are NO poor Doctors in a Govt. funded health system. Another big benefit today of creating a UHC is the MASSIVE employment that it will need to run and create the new system and the new industries that would be created in the USA to equip the UHC would make America, once again, a world leader in innovation and we could sell to the rest of the World. We would need every type of worker from medical staff to architects to cleaners to builders to administration staff to security officers to cooks to lab technicians to maintenance staff to drivers etc etc etc etc etc..... you name it we will need those employees all over America. When the UK created the NHS, the UK had to ask for workers to move to the UK from the Caribbean etc. to work in the Govt. funded health system as so much employment was created and needed. NOT ONE person is made bankrupt by a Govt. funded health system or has to decide between food and health care for their loved ones and NO ONE has a problem paying for health care or says they cannot afford the tax for health care....... it DOESN'T HAPPEN...... NO MORE waiting to see if your loved one gets worse before deciding to go see a Doctor.... access is easy and NOT prohibitive as it is here now.
No longer would we need Medicare/aid or a VA system........ everyone gets great health care.
So to sum up............ we NEED a Govt. funded health system here NOW.
The affordable health care plan is a start but has been created with plenty of "pork" to feather the nests of too many "interested parties" and big corporations......... that is awful. Our health and our loved ones health is our most important priority and should NOT be treated like a commodity or a luxury item.
America needs to come into the 21st century with health care and not fall behind Countries like Cuba, Taiwan etc as it has now.
Now that you have done your rant let me ask you some questions about what we are about to have stacked on us. Who wrote the bill, in the first place? How many Democrats took part in the writing along with no Republicans at all? How many Republicans voted for the law when it passed? When you can answer these questions it may be time for you to howl about UHC. I have no desire to have all our healthcare run by bureaucrats and that is because of my 14 years in Medicare.

Do you think that many doctors will quit and that many new ones will want to work under bureaucrats? That is what you get with UHC and most of them don't want to play that game.

You squealed about all those tests. Do you not know that if they miss on a diagnosis and failed to perform one little, costly test they will probably be sued? In this country that is how they do it.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly4u View Post
People,
this is not a Democrat or Republican issue!
Put your political feelings aside and realzie this is about the strength of this country!
If the USA can't take care of it's own people, we are destined to fail.
All the other countries in the world understand this. Why are the people
in this country so backwards?
If you have healthcare through your employer, you will not be effected.
So, count yourself lucky.
If you get cancer, and your employer hears that you are sick,
they will find a reason to get rid of you and you will be stuck without
any health insurance with cancer. Good luck buying a private policy then.
The real poor already have Medicaid. The real rich can afford whatever
polilcy they want.
The working middle class are totally dependent on thier employers,
and if they have an employer like my husband does, health care is not
an option.
The working people need this law to pass. It's a matter of life
and death for millions of people today.
Stop thinking partison politics and realize that people die
every day from lack of health insurance.
What should the working people do?
Die quickly.
Really?
Is that what the USA is all about?
You will not be affected as long as your employer keeps it but they can drop you and shove you into the exchange with not problem for them. Actually, most of them will save money by doing just that and the people with the insurance will lose it when Obama said that wouldn't happen. I think you may be surprised at the numbers of those you think are in great shape who get dumped into the exchanges if this pile of Pelosi goes into effect.
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,400,833 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
As we all know, the Supreme Court ruling on the healthcare bill is imminent, and the sentiment seems to be that all or part of the law will be ruled unconstitutional. As this will come shortly before the main campaign season which will kick off with the summer conventions, it will obviously have some impact.

I think the conventional wisdom is that having the bill struck down would be a Republican victory, but I wonder if there is a point at which it could be spun in Obama's favor, or at least be neutralized as a negative. For example, depending on what would be struck down, people may see parts of the bill they liked disappear, like being able to purchase coverage for adult children up to 26 or not denying coverage for pre-existing conditions. The most rabid opposition to the law comes from a subset of people who were never going to vote for Obama anyway. Can he spin it that he promised healthcare reform, got it passed, but it was overruled by factors beyond his legislative control, and further spin it that the Republicans have no alternative for something that has clearly been an ongoing problem?

If the Republicans are careful not to gloat, as Boehner warned, and quickly float some kind of alternative draft of a law, that probably wouldn't happen, but they'll have to be careful not to boot it.
First of all, there is no severability clause in the Health Care Reform bill. If any part of the law is unconstitutional, then the entire law must be tossed out as unconstitutional.

Secondly, the primary reason you will not see an alternative bill from Republicans is because the federal government has absolutely no constitutional authority to involve itself in regulating health care.
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,342,306 times
Reputation: 8672
Individual mandate repealed or none of it would be an Obama victory. Republicans win if the while thing is overturned.

About that simple. The republicans have no plan to replace it, so......
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,342,306 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
First of all, there is no severability clause in the Health Care Reform bill. If any part of the law is unconstitutional, then the entire law must be tossed out as unconstitutional.

Secondly, the primary reason you will not see an alternative bill from Republicans is because the federal government has absolutely no constitutional authority to involve itself in regulating health care.
Your first sentence isn't always true. The court has taken parts of laws with non severability, and broken them up.

Really depends on the court.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,400,833 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Your first sentence isn't always true. The court has taken parts of laws with non severability, and broken them up.

Really depends on the court.
No, they have not.

The majority of the legislation enacted by Congress includes a severability clause. It is almost a standard clause used by both Democrats and Republicans. In this case, the Democrats deliberately refused to include a severability clause in the Health Care Reform bill because:
  1. They knew it would end up before the Supreme Court; and
  2. They are gambling on the court ruling on their behalf specifically because the law is so huge they think the court would never dare rule the entire law unconstitutional.
If there is no severability clause, and even if only one part of one Section is ruled unconstitutional, the court has no choice but to render the entire law unconstitutional. It is either "all or nothing."
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:04 AM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,832,510 times
Reputation: 2059
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Now that you have done your rant let me ask you some questions about what we are about to have stacked on us. Who wrote the bill, in the first place? How many Democrats took part in the writing along with no Republicans at all? How many Republicans voted for the law when it passed? When you can answer these questions it may be time for you to howl about UHC. I have no desire to have all our healthcare run by bureaucrats and that is because of my 14 years in Medicare.
Who gives a damn about who voted for what?
You really see what you want to see when i write a post or do you have a problem with comprehension?
READ my post................. Under a UHC the health care is NOT run by the BEUROCRATS.... I will write it again so that you can understand it............ UNDER A UHC THE HEALTHCARE IS NOT RUN BY THE BEUROCRATS...... OK now next step........... The health care is run by the HEALTH PROFESSIONALS.... do you understand that....... RUN BY THE HEALTH PROFESSIONALS. Now i do understand how some here cannot comprehend a health system that is actually decided on by the Doctors and health professionals as America does not hae that here...... your health needs are decided by the CEO's of the Insurance companies and the Admin dept in the Hopsital....... NOT the Doctors. Before a Doctor gives you treatment here he has to be sure that you can pay for it either yourself or with a insurance policy or you do NOT get treatment..... the law says you MUST get urgent care in the ER but that is it.
With a UHC, the Doctor decides your treatments and the Doctor alone decides if you need to come into hospital or have tests etc etc etc..... NOT THE GOVT. Ok let's hope you understand that now and stop quoting these stupid sundbites that are NOT true.

Do you think that many doctors will quit and that many new ones will want to work under bureaucrats? That is what you get with UHC and most of them don't want to play that game.
Can you please tell me where you get the idea that Doctors DO NOT want to work under a UHC? Maybe the get rich quick ones here but the Doctors in ALL of the other Countries with a UHC work with NO problems and there are NO poor Doctors in the British NHS. The Australian Doctors also kicked against a UHC in Australia because they were scared that their cash cow would come to a end........ well their are more than enough Doctors in the Australian health system and they have no complaints. The UK has some of the finest Doctors in the World and they have no problems working in the NHS.... any that want to get mega money can work in the private sector in the UK or even both the NHS and the private sector. Let's see how many Doctors actually quit here when a UHC is implemented..... what are they going to do...... move to another Country that has a UHC?................ NO ..... maybe they will drive a Taxi as they will have no other skills.......... get real, they are trying it on to scare people..... they will not quit, they cannot quit as they will soon lose everything. Doctors here will also realise that they will have far more control of what treatments they can give under a UHC. The only "GAME" being played is by the Doctors and the big corporations and that game is.... "let's see how rich i can get on the backs of sick people"............ DISGUSTING!

You squealed about all those tests. Do you not know that if they miss on a diagnosis and failed to perform one little, costly test they will probably be sued? In this country that is how they do it.
I didn't "squeal" about any tests..... i commente on how expensive it was to get treatment in a Hospital here and if i could pay $1600 straight away for my treatment etc, how come they gave me a bill for $6,500 ? If the proper price was $6,500 and that was a fair price, where the hell did the $1600 come from and PLEASE don't tell me they were doing me a favour lowering the price.... NO they were ripping me off inflating the price in the first place........... we ALL KNOW THEY DO THAT.
Could you please tell me of your experience with or using a UHC AND any bad experiences you have had with a UHC or are your opinions just "here say" from the people who want to keep America under their thumb and earn billions? Will be interested in your experiences of a UHC that give you such a love for the current American system.
BTW........................ Doctors here often double or triple your tests NOT because of fear of a law suit but because using tha excuse means they can earn twice, three times etc the profit............ Maybe if a Doctor is unsure of a test it can be repeated but not the third fourth etc time as this will mean nothing....... In the UK tests are repeated but only if there is any doubt with the previous test and it isn't about money there... unlike here....... get real!

Last edited by geeoro; 06-23-2012 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,209,134 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeoro View Post
I didn't "squeal" about any tests..... i commente on how expensive it was to get treatment in a Hospital here and if i could pay $1600 straight away for my treatment etc, how come they gave me a bill for $6,500 ? If the proper price was $6,500 and that was a fair price, where the hell did the $1600 come from and PLEASE don't tell me they were doing me a favour lowering the price.... NO they were ripping me off inflating the price in the first place........... we ALL KNOW THEY DO THAT.
Could you please tell me of your experience with or using a UHC AND any bad experiences you have had with a UHC or are your opinions just "here say" from the people who want to keep America under their thumb and earn billions? Will be interested in your experiences of a UHC that give you such a love for the current American system.
BTW........................ Doctors here often double or triple your tests NOT because of fear of a law suit but because using tha excuse means they can earn twice, three times etc the profit............ Maybe if a Doctor is unsure of a test it can be repeated but not the third fourth etc time as this will mean nothing....... In the UK tests are repeated but only if there is any doubt with the previous test and it isn't about money there... unlike here....... get real!
Since so many of you people are so sure about UHC being the answer to something maybe I can use examples of mine with Medicare. I have been on Medicare for over 15 years. I have had endoscopys at least once a year for the last 11 years. I know what the doctor and the hospital ask for when these happen and know that the doctor gets nearly half of what he asks for and the hospital gets less than that. I have talked to people who had no insurance who had the same test by the same people and paid just what they asked Medicare for.

Now I am sure that you know quite a bit about Medicare but you have no experience with it. Last fall the State Medicare people sent out a warning that they were going to drop what they would pay for many things. Endoscopy was one of the things listed. In May I had my last one and the doctor asked for just what he had been asking for over 10 years and he got about $20 less. That group in the state capital is, in essence, a death panel in that they tell providers what they will pay a certain amount and leave it up to the providers to take it or leave it. I have been very lucky in that all my providers have taken what Medicare will pay even though they could get so much more from uninsured or insured people.

I want to think of those people as real humans but somehow just see bureaucrats none of which are doctors or hospital employees or ever have been. If something so pure appearing as Medicare that I still get to pay as much as I ever did, does what they do I know what federal bureaucrats would do if they were in charge. I hold up the best example of what we will be seeing with UHC and people like you say we don't have it in the UK. Why don't you just plan to go back home when you have something serious wrong so the stupid acting Americans don't get to touch you?

As for tests, with some intelligent laws about suing health care providers we could avoid a lot of those things. If we did something with tort reform we could avoid a lot of those things, but the people in control of our Congress (GOP and Dems, alike) don't really want that controlled in an intelligent manner. Yep, Dems go out of their minds when someone says those dirty words, tort reform. The establishment people in both parties don't want to see that done.

Most of the tests that get done on me aren't done in the doctor's office so surely he doesn't get much more for repeats, unless he is working for a kick back. My doctor is an honest woman and doesn't pull crap like that. There are dishonest people all over the place but not all of them are like that. She has had me do a number of tests from time to time, but all were to find if there was a need for something.

I still believe that Medicare is the main reason for the continual rise in prices in health care. I say this because providers tend to jack up prices on insured people because the insurance companies pay what they are asked of pay. The less the government pays for Medicare patients the more insured people have to be charged. Of course, Medicaid is also involved and takes in all those millions of people who don't have insurance, no matter what the left says.

I will add that I believe that taking VA help with medication helped me plug up in my arteries because they help only with generic pills and I haven't plugged up with newer ones since my six by pass surgery. In fact, my cholesterol is so low that we may have to cut back on the amount I take.

When I had my by-pass I was 72 and no questions were asked. I went into the hospital on Sunday, the arteries were found clogged Monday morning (3 at 85% and 3 at 95%), and I was operated on Wednesday morning. It was an emergency and treated like that. I seriously don't think I would have got that surgery under Obamacare or UHC. Too old and too far gone would have been their story. Maybe I won't survive a long time from now but I am 7 1/2 years beyond the time and nobody talked about letting me lie there and die, either. I couldn't have afforded something like that without Medicare so I am thankful for it but I hate the fact that those huge costs were paid for by Medicare and my endocopys just aren't.
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:26 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
7,923 posts, read 8,832,510 times
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To be honest, all of the above would be a mute point with a UHC. Medicare is a band aid trying to fix a severed leg and is NOT run in any way like a UHC. Medicare/aid or vet care is not needed with a UHC and would not be a issue.
To try to use Medicare/aid or vet care as some kind of example on how a Govt. funded health care system is run is absolute madness. They are ENTIRELY different.
As i said i would love to know your experience with a actual UHC not a half baked scheme like medicare.
BTW......... Medicare/aid etc do NOT exist in Countries with a UHC........ no need as the UHC covers everyone and is controlled by the Medical experts NOT beurocrats. Let me hear your experiences of a UHC that you can use to give a opinion on a UHC.
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