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Unread 06-28-2012, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,311 posts, read 2,276,824 times
Reputation: 3031
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
They seem to not like my statement, but, they still cannot come up with anything good Conservatives have ever done for the good of the country. I find this amusing.
First of all, the question is childish, and we conservatives regard it with disdain and ignore it. If one or more of us did actually reply and answer in depth, the response would take hours to compose and run for several pages, a very, very long post. You may regard the lack of a response to be amusing, but we would find composing one tedious and not really worth the effort.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
45,912 posts, read 34,604,569 times
Reputation: 18649
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310 View Post
This is just plain taken out of context. No way is the GOP anywhere near a 3rd party anywhere, not even Ca. I would have no problem with a real live 3rd party, but in my lifetime and most of ours we will continue to see a 2 party system: known to most as Republican and Democrat.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
45,912 posts, read 34,604,569 times
Reputation: 18649
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyyo View Post
no see you have it wrong, it's usually Republican policies that threaten to turn us into a third world. I mean poor people are just lazy and rich people earned everything they have through hard work, not mommy and daddy's trust fund, am I right? who needs safe working conditions or child labor laws anyway? I mean corporations are people too aren't they?
how many poor people do you know? If you know many you would realize some do not want to work and yes, they are lazy. No one is talking about those who have lost their jobs and are having trouble getting hired because they would be underemployed and comanies don't lke that to happen. We are not talking the disabled either, but I know many (I used to live in an area with many on food stamps, wic, etc) they could work if they wanted, they could practice birth control, they could go to re-hab and get rid of the drug habits, and they could get themselves trained in a field where there is a need. Heck, they could work for Micky Dee's but they make more on welfare...
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Unread 06-28-2012, 02:01 PM
 
7,155 posts, read 3,674,416 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Opportunities are everywhere and people can't see them because they are looking for a hand out.
Based on previous exchanges with you, I am confident that your opinions are motivated by the best of intentions ... however you are really voicing a lot of unsubstantiated stereotyping, especially about welfare in America, and who uses it and misuses it -- which, lately, I have been responding to in several threads. It is a topic rife with emotional knee-jerking assumptions -- mostly false.

For example, you imply that there is a large sub-culture thriving on cash welfare. Cash welfare is funded through a Federal program called TANF. As you can see in my quote below, there are only 1.9 million families consisting of 4.7 million recipients of cash welfare payments -- and the payments are limited to from between 24 and 60 months, depending on location and circumstances ... so it is not an ongoing culture. Furthermore, 3.5 million of the 4.7 million are children -- meaning there are only 1.2 million adults in the entire country receiving cash welfare support. Since the U.S. has a population of over 312 million, this means that slightly over 1/3 of one percent of adults are on the dole -- most of them mothers of children receiving assistance.

Hardly a significant percentage to be so threatening to the well being of our nation as people who rant and rail against the "welfare culture" would have us all be frightened of, no?

Cash Welfare Caseload. In December 2010, the number of families receiving TANF cash
welfare was 1.9 million families, consisting of 4.7 million recipients, of which 3.5 million were
children. The cash welfare caseload is very heterogeneous. The type of family historically thought
of as the “typical” cash welfare family—one with an unemployed adult recipient—accounted for
less than half of all families on the rolls in FY2008. Additionally, 15% of cash welfare families
had an employed adult, while almost half of all families had no adult recipient. Child-only
families include those with disabled adults receiving Supplemental Security Income (SSI), adults
who are nonparents (e.g., grandparents, aunts, uncles) caring for children, and families consisting
of citizen children and ineligible noncitizen parents.


So how then do we have such a huge welfare budget? Total welfare consists of many programs besides TANF. But none of the other programs are issuing cash checks. Other programs serve the elderly, the disabled, and many educational programs to feed our nation's work force -- and of course: Food Stamps. Which of those programs would you like to demonize further?

The disabled, because there are a small percentage who could get by otherwise? It's not large. My wife is profoundly Deaf since birth. She has a Master's Degree and works. But many are not so blessed and gifted. There are the blind, and a host of other bona fide conditions that can't compete for gainful employment.

The elderly? Should we put them on the street?

Food Stamps? Which serve huge numbers of struggling families including substantial percentage of military families ... plus obviously the huge number of unemployed in this economy.

You went on and on about anecdotal stories of individuals who figured out how to make independent livings. Yes, a few can squeeze themselves into our economy. But mostly that is not an option for the 12.7 million unemployed right now. There aren't 12.7 million self-employment opportunities. The economy is limiting expenditures at all levels. Money made in one person's self-employment is money not spent elsewhere -- thus resulting in a net gain of about zero for the nation's unemployed.

Educational and training programs? Really? I don't even need to expound on that do I?
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Unread 06-28-2012, 02:13 PM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,591 posts, read 17,265,757 times
Reputation: 15914
"Dogma demands authority, rather than intelligent thought, as the source of opinion; it requires persecution of heretics and hostility to unbelievers; it asks of its disciples that they should inhibit natural kindliness in favor of systematic hatred."

~ Bertrand Russell
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Unread 06-28-2012, 02:13 PM
 
7,155 posts, read 3,674,416 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
how many poor people do you know? If you know many you would realize some do not want to work and yes, they are lazy.
How many, nmnita?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
I know many (I used to live in an area with many on food stamps, wic, etc) they could work if they wanted, they could practice birth control, they could go to re-hab and get rid of the drug habits, and they could get themselves trained in a field where there is a need. Heck, they could work for Micky Dee's
Really? How many?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
but they make more on welfare...
Really? How much do they "make" on welfare? ... and for how long?

Your entire post is the kind of nonsense I just deflated above in a response to SOON2BN. Read it. I dare you to challenge the percentages I quote from the Congressional Research Service.

Do you think people pay their rent with Food Stamps? Drive their cars? Buy clothing? Go out and party, maybe? All on Food Stamps, huh? That's "making more on welfare"? What a complete 100% load of crap stereotyping a minscule percentage of Americans -- just so you can demonize a concept rather than pay attention to those at high levels who are ripping the heart and life out of us all. Shamefully ignorant post.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
11,416 posts, read 8,603,458 times
Reputation: 5212
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang View Post
Sort of like Obama's suggestion for legalizing gay marriage.
In what way?
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Unread 06-28-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 2,809,774 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
First of all, the question is childish, and we conservatives regard it with disdain and ignore it. If one or more of us did actually reply and answer in depth, the response would take hours to compose and run for several pages, a very, very long post. You may regard the lack of a response to be amusing, but we would find composing one tedious and not really worth the effort.
Hogwash, Conservatives have opposed everything good this country has done, and have been on the wrong side of history as long as there has been history.

Tell me, in the past 300 years what nation has moved toward greater Conservative politics that lasted for more than two generations? Nazism failed, Communism failed (both rightwing ideologies, as practiced)

Answer: none.
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Unread 06-28-2012, 03:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast Wanderer
11,416 posts, read 8,603,458 times
Reputation: 5212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Based on previous exchanges with you, I am confident that your opinions are motivated by the best of intentions ... however you are really voicing a lot of unsubstantiated stereotyping, especially about welfare in America, and who uses it and misuses it -- which, lately, I have been responding to in several threads. It is a topic rife with emotional knee-jerking assumptions -- mostly false.

For example, you imply that there is a large sub-culture thriving on cash welfare. Cash welfare is funded through a Federal program called TANF. As you can see in my quote below, there are only 1.9 million families consisting of 4.7 million recipients of cash welfare payments -- and the payments are limited to from between 24 and 60 months, depending on location and circumstances ... so it is not an ongoing culture. Furthermore, 3.5 million of the 4.7 million are children -- meaning there are only 1.2 million adults in the entire country receiving cash welfare support. Since the U.S. has a population of over 312 million, this means that slightly over 1/3 of one percent of adults are on the dole -- most of them mothers of children receiving assistance.

Hardly a significant percentage to be so threatening to the well being of our nation as people who rant and rail against the "welfare culture" would have us all be frightened of, no?

Cash Welfare Caseload. In December 2010, the number of families receiving TANF cash
welfare was 1.9 million families, consisting of 4.7 million recipients, of which 3.5 million were
children. The cash welfare caseload is very heterogeneous. The type of family historically thought
of as the “typical” cash welfare family—one with an unemployed adult recipient—accounted for
less than half of all families on the rolls in FY2008. Additionally, 15% of cash welfare families
had an employed adult, while almost half of all families had no adult recipient. Child-only
families include those with disabled adults receiving Supplemental Security Income (SSI), adults
who are nonparents (e.g., grandparents, aunts, uncles) caring for children, and families consisting
of citizen children and ineligible noncitizen parents.


So how then do we have such a huge welfare budget? Total welfare consists of many programs besides TANF. But none of the other programs are issuing cash checks. Other programs serve the elderly, the disabled, and many educational programs to feed our nation's work force -- and of course: Food Stamps. Which of those programs would you like to demonize further?

The disabled, because there are a small percentage who could get by otherwise? It's not large. My wife is profoundly Deaf since birth. She has a Master's Degree and works. But many are not so blessed and gifted. There are the blind, and a host of other bona fide conditions that can't compete for gainful employment.

The elderly? Should we put them on the street?

Food Stamps? Which serve huge numbers of struggling families including substantial percentage of military families ... plus obviously the huge number of unemployed in this economy.

You went on and on about anecdotal stories of individuals who figured out how to make independent livings. Yes, a few can squeeze themselves into our economy. But mostly that is not an option for the 12.7 million unemployed right now. There aren't 12.7 million self-employment opportunities. The economy is limiting expenditures at all levels. Money made in one person's self-employment is money not spent elsewhere -- thus resulting in a net gain of about zero for the nation's unemployed.

Educational and training programs? Really? I don't even need to expound on that do I?
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Unread 06-28-2012, 03:51 PM
 
7,155 posts, read 3,674,416 times
Reputation: 3806
Default Correction

Whoooops, I mis-wrote a figure in my rebuttal to SOON2BN earlier ...
I wrote that only about 1/3 of 1 percent of adults in the the US are receiving cash welfare.
It is actually about 1/2 of 1 % of adults.
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