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And another thing, why shouldn't gov't spending be done according to need and value, just as with a household or business. If the kid has grown and needs a bigger pair of shoes, you go out and buy them. You don't go out and buy a truckload of shoes for no reason on the basis that it will be a "stimulus" for family members (i.e. dad) to go out and work harder, get a raise, etc. Likewise with gov't. If it's decided that the town needs a new park where kids can play baseball, then build the park. You don't spend $400,000 in "stimulus money" to revamp a park so that OWS'ers can trample and destroy it. Duh.
It's a typical fallacy to compare a household budget to the overall economy.
You just don't get that if government spending is cut, that's somebodies income that is cut, if that persons income is cut, that means your income is cut.
We are not a household budget, regardless of the fact that comparison makes it easier for you to comprehend.
Sadly, evidence doesn't matter. For those who don't support it, stimulus spending is a political and for some an ideological objection.
In others words stimulus is bad because Obama wants and it can't work because Obama wants it and "liberals" support it.
Never mind that every Republican president and congressman has supported stimulus spending. This is now down the memory hole.
Now those same people say that stimulus spending can't work because the world doesn't work that way.
I am not an economist and I don't have strong leaning one way or another for this idea of stimulus, but if you listen to the reasoning of those who are for more stimulus spending versus those who are against.
It becomes apparent who is thinking and attempting to solve our nation's economic problems and who is being emotional and rigid on political and ideological grounds no matter the evidence.
I always go with the thinkers in a political disagreement.
I've been around these boards long enough to understand those that want budget cuts in the face of all this evidence that it would be devastating are in general, living of fixed incomes, and not at risk of their meager incomes being cut in their lifetimes. The creepy thing is many of them have children who'll have to live with the consequences of their worshiping the rich, and practically begging that their middle class entitlements be cut.
Europe is already proving what we've know all along.
Cutting government spending in an economic downturn exactly the wrong thing to do.
Look at this graph of countries in Europe that followed the GOP's spending cut plans versus countries that kept their government spending up ..Powering their recoveries.
Only in countries that rejected right wing austerity measures, and increased government spending, did GDP go up.
Every single country that carried out what is now Romney's plan, lost ground and their citizens will suffer more.
Show me someone who predicts the future, and I'll show you someone who is wrong.
The GOP had years of control in congress and the white house, and they left the economy in shambles. They weren't paying the bills, compassionate conservatives.
I can't say Obama has done much if any better, but the GOP has hardly shown us that they are fiscally responsible on a damned thing.
It's a typical fallacy to compare a household budget to the overall economy.
You just don't get that if government spending is cut, that's somebodies income that is cut, if that persons income is cut, that means your income is cut.
We are not a household budget, regardless of the fact that comparison makes it easier for you to comprehend.
And you dont seem to get that in order for government to increase spending, they have to remove the money from the economy first, thereby you arent increasing spending, you are only changing how its spent, and as a result ITS NOT A FRICKEN STIMULUS..
Even Obama supporters who are economists are now saying Obama (and thus people like you) dont know what the hell your talking about.
Show me someone who predicts the future, and I'll show you someone who is wrong.
The GOP had years of control in congress and the white house, and they left the economy in shambles. They weren't paying the bills, compassionate conservatives.
I can't say Obama has done much if any better, but the GOP has hardly shown us that they are fiscally responsible on a damned thing.
I think you hit the nail on the head both sides are to blame for the mess we currently sit in. Lot of talk but no action just kick the can down the road. They are both scared of the reforms they know HAVE to be made because of how the other side will make it appear to the voters. What was it I think Benjamin Franklin said once the people realize they can vote themselves money it's all over or something along those lines. We appear to be there. The only group who was really about cutting spending at all was the tea party and they were vilified by democrats and republican lawmakers. I'm pretty convinced nothing will change until it all collapses myself. May as well get it over with now. They've already spent our childrens money. May as well give the grandkids a shot.
There are smart democrats, and then there are progressive nut jobs. Your friend is the former.
I'm not sure how Romney will be as a President, but if he can turn the country around like he did the Olympics (a money pit on the grandest scale, before he took over,) then how can anyone continue to roll the dice on the Obama crap table?
Seriously... if I didn't know better I'd say the only people backing him are; stars who are completely disconnected and people who love the company (government handouts) store. Anyone running a business or working in the private sector knows who they'll be voting for. It's the welfare, gov jobs and elite whackjobs backing this marxist ideologue.
Happy 4th Mr. President - I'm glad you're eating, some people aren't.
I'm ready for this country to fill to the brim with capitalist pigs again!
Why, i am inclne to agree with you. I feel too, people who will be voting for him, are people who truly don't care about the economy, or jobs, or anything of importance.
And yes they will be HollyWeird celebrities and comedians, and some who naturally expect government hadnouts, because they feel they are owed, and i have heard some tell me this in 0/8. Pissed me the hell off. Yes we have our own business, and Obama leaving tomorrow would not be soon enough.
Ciao Ciao Obama, enjoy your acting carreer!
The young entrepreneurs I heard talking on Fox the other night convinced me that unemployment today is largely caused by the non-desire to work. Jobs are there but they don't pay any better than unemployment payments from the government, other welfare, food stamps and help in paying rent. I think those kids were very right about no work ethic left after all the money those people can get for not working.
Fox loves to blame the little guys while worshiping big money. Let's not pretend Faux is is "fair and balanced"... The little guys who watch Fox get a jolly out of believing they are somehow superior to their fellow man, but they are being brainwashed and manipulated, just like with any other major media outlet. In fact, I think the conservative crowd often times hold their principles on a pedestal.
At any rate, simple mathematics... If you can make the same $$$ sitting on your butt, why wouldn't you? This is not a matter of principle, it's a matter of common sense. Labor rates are a two way street. If you can't fill a job, you have to offer a higher wage. That may involve the business owner lowing his expectations of his take home pay. If he can not afford to, and cannot fill the position, he must than ask why. Perhaps he is not running his business as efficiently as he should be. Business is a competitive game, and if someone down the street can afford to get the workers, and make money, he wins. That's the way the cookie crumbles as they say. Just because some businesses can't afford to fill positions at established market labor rates, this does not mean people are lazy or taking advantage of the system. It simply means the business owner can't afford to run his business, but instead of solving that problem, he would rather whine and blame someone else.
I think you hit the nail on the head both sides are to blame for the mess we currently sit in. Lot of talk but no action just kick the can down the road. They are both scared of the reforms they know HAVE to be made because of how the other side will make it appear to the voters. What was it I think Benjamin Franklin said once the people realize they can vote themselves money it's all over or something along those lines. We appear to be there. The only group who was really about cutting spending at all was the tea party and they were vilified by democrats and republican lawmakers. I'm pretty convinced nothing will change until it all collapses myself. May as well get it over with now. They've already spent our childrens money. May as well give the grandkids a shot.
And the problem is that there are places that Americans agree, in overwhelming majority, agree to cut spending on. They will also accept higher taxes. But the things that we all agree on that can be cut, the politicians don't. Military industrial complex. It all comes from the idea that the government is going to keep you safe, all the time. Safety is an illusion, but we arrest and hold people for decades for really no crime that hurt anyone, ever. And then we use our military to build an industrial complex that contributes to campaigns to keep the cash cow coming. All the while, Americans paying into social security and medicare, are looking to face cuts to programs they mostly agree with, just to keep the Industrial complex money machine that is Washington.
It could recover, America's story is much more about luck then it is ideology. We've had a lot of things come our way at the exact right time. Could happen again, and the party will keep on going.
You just don't get that if government spending is cut, that's somebodies income that is cut, if that persons income is cut, that means your income is cut.
And where did that money come from in the first place?
There is no magical faucet spewing out government paychecks that the evil right wingers are trying to shut off just for the hell of it.
Europe is already proving what we've know all along.
Cutting government spending in an economic downturn exactly the wrong thing to do.
Look at this graph of countries in Europe that followed the GOP's spending cut plans versus countries that kept their government spending up ..Powering their recoveries.
Only in countries that rejected right wing austerity measures, and increased government spending, did GDP go up.
Every single country that carried out what is now Romney's plan, lost ground and their citizens will suffer more.
That's the terms they had to agree to in order to borrow money because they are so far in debt due to reckless spending beyond what they took in via revenue.
LOL..so Romney is copying the IMF ?
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