No social security check anymore (salary, drug, independent, deported)

[saganista]

Originally Posted by Greatday

I note however you did not directly answer my question - even though you clearly undersood my intention. Instead, you attempted to give a strawman answer - So, once again, would you permit someone in this country ILLEGALLY () to collect social security? IMHO, a simple "yes" or "no" would suffice

The question is and was equivocal in that your understanding and meaning of 'collect social security' is left unclear. I attempted to address that shortcoming by providing the non-straw-man response that follows...

I'd further assume that you believe that an illegal immigrant who has a work and payroll deduction history that warrants a collection of benefits from Social Security, those benefits should be paid.

While the haste of its typing at an early hour did leave a grammatical flaw or two in there, you may assume that I would strongly support the general right of those who have qualified for Social Security benefits to collect them.

I notice, btw, that you chose not to address either of the other situations raised...i.e., whether the fire department had any obligation to put out fires at the homes of illegal immigrants, and whether merchants had any obligation actually to deliver goods that an illegal immigrant had ordered and paid for. Perhaps you'd like to do that now...

[amichel]

Originally Posted by saganista

The question is and was equivocal in that your understanding and meaning of 'collect social security' is left unclear. I attempted to address that shortcoming by providing the non-straw-man response that follows...

I'd further assume that you believe that an illegal immigrant who has a work and payroll deduction history that warrants a collection of benefits from Social Security, those benefits should be paid.

While the haste of its typing at an early hour did leave a grammatical flaw or two in there, you may assume that I would strongly support the general right of those who have qualified for Social Security benefits to collect them.

I notice, btw, that you chose not to address either of the other situations raised...i.e., whether the fire department had any obligation to put out fires at the homes of illegal immigrants, and whether merchants had any obligation actually to deliver goods that an illegal immigrant had ordered and paid for. Perhaps you'd like to do that now...

Wow. Those two examples are JUST LIKE collecting social security.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by saganista

I notice, btw, that you chose not to address either of the other situations raised...i.e., whether the fire department had any obligation to put out fires at the homes of illegal immigrants, and whether merchants had any obligation actually to deliver goods that an illegal immigrant had ordered and paid for. Perhaps you'd like to do that now...

I chose not to address them for they have NOTHING to do with the question -

[LauraC]

Ten ideas to make money for the US Government:

1. Sell US Senate cookies. Their approval ratings are low but maybe their cookies will be good. "Mrs Smith, would you buy my half-baked, double nutties? I'm trying to earn my Senate merit badge." Let them go door-to-door so they can actually meet people in their state.


2. Special Do Nothing Tax on our Senators and Representatives for failing to pass government appropriation bills on time, every stinkin' year. It should be a 2 page tax form with 10 pages of instruction and at least 4 calculations and of course, the wealthier they are, the higher the tax to provide some incentive for putting their actual job ahead of their political posturing. I can think of no better way for ensuring bi-partisan cooperation on these annual appropriations.


3. Forget about a fat tax or a higher cigarette and/or alcohol tax. According to news stories those people are all going to die young anyway so we're not going to get that much money out of them. I say we heavily tax health food and exercise equipment purchases so we can continue to collect money from these people into old age. They are a drain on Social Security because they live longer, so let's make 'em pay for their healthiness. The money collected would help fund Social Security.


4. Hire Mexicans to build the border fence across the entire US border with Mexico and hire other Mexicans to guard it from the Mexican side of the fence. These Mexican citizens would live in Mexico so they could go home and still earn a decent living. Since they would be working in Mexico, they would spend money in Mexico helping the Mexican economy. From all accounts they work hard (so the fence would be built faster than the current rate of approximate 1 yard per every 6 months). They work cheap (there's the monetary savings for the US government). Then there's that added plus - they already know Spanish. We could even throw in a hospital and a couple of schools for their kids on the Mexican side of the border. We then wouldn't need as many border patrol agents on the US side of the fence and could redeploy some of the border patrol agents to the Canadian border.


5. Get rid of one Intelligence gathering agency of your choice. Why do we need so many different ones to leak sensitive information, anyway? There has to be a government monetary savings with one less agency and it will make it easier for the NY Times and Washington Post to have less go-to places for leaks.


6. Build the bridge to nowhere and collect a reverse toll. That is, if you are a citizen in the State of Alaska and you don't use the bridge, you get an extra Nowhere Toll Tax at tax time, every year until the day you die, payable to Uncle Sam. (The actual tolls for using the bridge would go to Alaska)


7. Tax carbon credits and use the money to help fund alternative energy programs.


8. Tax Directo A Mexico wire transfers of money out of the country to defray the cost of illegal immigration on our infrastructure. On that same note, determine Mexico's share of illegal immigration costs and deduct that amount from any aid we send to that country. Do likewise with other countries.


9. If we absolutely must keep the UN in the US, put the building in Arkansas or Mississippi where it would cost a lot less than NY. On that same note, put a casino on the ground floor of the UN to defray costs or to fund disaster relief around the world.

10. Sell Nancy Pelosi's plane to buy better equipment for our soldiers.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by amichel

Wow. Those two examples are JUST LIKE collecting social security.

Correct. Just like the original SS question, each goes to the point of whether services that are routinely provided under such circumstances should be withheld if the potential recipient does not have his immigration papers in order.

I'm not surprised at the general reluctance to address them, though...

[Yeledaf]

Originally Posted by saganista

Bucky Harris was a secondbaseman, and the team he played for is now the Minnesota Twins. Still, the Nats do not have a glorious post-season record to point to, the franchise having last appeared on that stage in 1981. The times, they are a-changin', however. Though perhaps slowly at first...


On the contrary, in the interests of helping to assure their long and comfortable retirements, I advise all rednecks within the sound of my voice to open and, to the maximum extent that they find feasible, to contribute to whatever they see as the most appropriate to their circumstances from among the plethora of tax-favored and other private investment accounts that are available to them. I do expect that they will use their own money in this undertaking, however, and that they will not use their desire for secure elder years of their own as some lame excuse to deliberately undermine the networks that provide such critical security to others...

In other words, the social security taxes they pay are no longer "their own money."

Just wanted to confirm that that is your view.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by Yeledaf

In other words, the social security taxes they pay are no longer "their own money." Just wanted to confirm that that is your view.

That's correct.

[Yeledaf]

Originally Posted by saganista

That's correct.

And you want us to contribute even more of them, for purposes which will be disclosed to us at the proper time.

Correct?

[saganista]

Originally Posted by Yeledaf

And you want us to contribute even more of them, for purposes which will be disclosed to us at the proper time. Correct?

I believe the purposes of payroll taxes to be rather clearly spelled out in the enabling legislation.

If you meant to refer to general income taxes, which are also no longer yours once you pay them, the Congress regularly debates and then decides upon the purposes to which these and other funds shall be put. You have a personal representative within those debates whom you might seek to influence by petition in one direction or another as you see fit.

As to levels of taxation, I have no a priori inclination toward either more or less, but I would have one toward sufficiency. At the federal level in this country, receipts and outlay are functionally separate magisteria, so I might focus myself more on getting the level and mix of outlays right, then be concerned over tinkering toward better levels of sufficiency on the receipts side.

[Torrey]

Originally Posted by grew-up-3rd-culture

I propose (being in my 30's at the moment) that Americans should vote to decrease the amount of money being dolled out on each social security check NOW, so when gen-X reaches retirement we have something for us! Your thoughts.

My mother is on Social Security, and it is already hard for her to make ends meet. So you want to make her starve, so you have something later?

Why not do what I am doing, and work hard to make sure you have enough in the bank so you don't even need social security when you're over the hill? Never thought of doing that for yourself I guess.