U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:09 PM
 
22,256 posts, read 16,367,745 times
Reputation: 7234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post

But, most blacks still aren't on welfare. Which is the OP's point.
Then he should of stuck to the relevant numbers for that argument instead of trying to make comparisons to whites.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:09 PM
 
16,148 posts, read 5,294,967 times
Reputation: 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
Huh? I said a greater proportion is on welfare. I understand that fine. That is a real problem that deserves attention.

But, most blacks still aren't on welfare. Which is the OP's point.
The point still is that the OP tried to use a 20 year old article to deceive. THAT IS THE POINT I'M MAKING! The article and what the OP stated is WRONG! It's as simple as that. Maybe next time the OP could just say what they mean and mean what they say without using witchcraft and hocus pocus trickery to try and get their point across.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:20 PM
 
6,997 posts, read 2,376,734 times
Reputation: 3696
I got an idea; let's go into all the various hoods across the nation and redistribute the population into housing based on every third house being assigned to a black family then perhaps you can put your nation onto a footing that doesn't automaticaly include discrimination. You folks never did learn to live together.

It was mentioned in a previous post that when forced to integrate with no choice, such as in the military, everyone seems to get along with some modicum of repsect.

Maybe you all just need to move to a smaller country?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:27 PM
 
Location: USA
1,769 posts, read 1,258,415 times
Reputation: 1096
Some People Need To Mind Their Own Business With Black Peoples Problems
http://youtu.be/hsxYC9B_AX4?t=2m57s
I mean if I went to Stormfront.com and tried to do the same, I would be told to start my own website and solve my own races problems!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Metro West- Boston, MA
9,404 posts, read 3,260,769 times
Reputation: 3568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
... what is the basis for the conservative meme that African Americans are loyal to the Democratic Party because of government benefits that they don't even qualify for to begin with? And why is it so hard for conservatives to grasp that such a meme is inherently racist and as result offensive to the vast majority of African American voters?

61 percent of welfare recipients are white.

88.7 percent of Social Security and disability payments are white.

46.2 percent of Food Stamp recipients are white.

48.5 percent of medicaid recipients are white.

Who gets welfare? Despite prevailing stereotype, whites, not blacks, collect greatest share of public aid dollars | Ebony | Find Articles

In 2008 African Americans comprised 12.8 percent of the population, account for 8.6 of GDP and were 11 percent of all workers.

Blacks' Role in the U.S. Economy

And, while conservatives are quick to seize upon the fact that 27.4 percent of African Americans living below the poverty line, I find in telling that the headlines never read;

Nearly 3/4s of African Americans Live Above the Poverty Line.

Which would be news since in 1960 55% of African Americans lived in poverty.

So the question becomes, if 3/4s of African Americans live above the poverty line, comprise 12.8 percent of the population and 11 percent of the workforce, even if 99.9 percent of all welfare recipients where African American, how does one even begin to try and support the argument that 90% of working African Americans are loyal to the Democratic Party because THEY get "government handouts". The answer is that the meme is unsupportable and African Americans fundamentally understand that.

The reality is that the "free stuff" meme is nothing more than a new variation of the Ronald Reagan "Welfare Queen" writ large.

So, It is the height of irony that the Republican Party's in its disingenuous attempt to find excuses for its abject failure to make inroads into the African American electorate to promote a blatantly racist stereotype that only acts to further cement African American antipathy towards the GOP, and as a result, ensures that 90+ precent of African Americans will remain loyal to the Democratic Party for the foreseeable future.


Nice try.


Quote:
While a plurality of SNAP households in FY 2010—35.7 percent—were headed by white non-Hispanics, according to the USDA, 22 percent were headed by African-Americans—a large share, considering that blacks make up roughly 13 percent of the U.S. population.

Gingrich's "Uncomfortable Facts" about Food Stamps Hold Water - US News and World Report
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:30 PM
 
2,764 posts, read 1,093,744 times
Reputation: 986
Then, is it only civil rights that garners the _________-_________ (I can't say it because we are not supposed to call each by _______-_______, or ______. ) vote for the Democrats? You are obviously on a mission, but I guess I'm just a Cracker for not figuring out what the mission is? Too oblique for me OV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I'm trying to quit smoking but you folks make if very difficult...

Look, here is premises underlying the Republic meme;

"African Americans support the Democratic Party in numbers consistently in 90 percentile because, quote "They depend on free stuff from the government." So;

1. In order for that to be true, the vast majority of African Americans have to be in a position to receive that free stuff, which is statistically impossible because the vast majority of African American do not qualify for government assistance and certainly don't qualify and anywhere near a rate approaching the 90% rate of support that American Americans give to the Democratic Party.

2. We know that voter turnout amongst the lowest quintile of potential voters, based upon income is also the lowest group to participate in actually voting. If that is the case then the absolute number and the percentage of "getters of free stuff" is further reduced, increasing percentage of voters who DO NOT vote out of motivation for government assistance.

In short poor folk just don't vote at the same rate as higher income earners, and no be they black white or purple the lowest quintile in neither in absolute nor proportionality significantly large enough out number higher earners.

3. While no one would deny that African Americans disproportionately earn less than below the official demarcation of poverty In absolute numbers which are how votes are counted, more low income whites have an incentive to support the Democratic Party than African Americans because they to get "free stuff" from the government, yet the silence about poor whites voting for the Democrats for the same reasons, is deafening. We don't hear or read conservative Republics railing against poor whites who in absolute numbers would be voters in need of ending their "slavery" to the Democratic plantation or at the very least stop being share croppers.

So in short, despite the bad math, reading comprehension failures and attempts to deflect the conversation, the FACT remains that the Republican Party attempt to portray African Americans as a whole as being mired and poverty and always on the look out for a freebee and as a result support the Democratic Party is not only statistically false it is racist to boot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:38 PM
 
7,955 posts, read 2,547,602 times
Reputation: 3071
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
... what is the basis for the conservative meme that African Americans are loyal to the Democratic Party because of government benefits that they don't even qualify for to begin with? And why is it so hard for conservatives to grasp that such a meme is inherently racist and as result offensive to the vast majority of African American voters?

61 percent of welfare recipients are white.

88.7 percent of Social Security and disability payments are white.

46.2 percent of Food Stamp recipients are white.

48.5 percent of medicaid recipients are white.

Who gets welfare? Despite prevailing stereotype, whites, not blacks, collect greatest share of public aid dollars | Ebony | Find Articles

In 2008 African Americans comprised 12.8 percent of the population, account for 8.6 of GDP and were 11 percent of all workers.

Blacks' Role in the U.S. Economy

And, while conservatives are quick to seize upon the fact that 27.4 percent of African Americans living below the poverty line, I find in telling that the headlines never read;

Nearly 3/4s of African Americans Live Above the Poverty Line.

Which would be news since in 1960 55% of African Americans lived in poverty.

So the question becomes, if 3/4s of African Americans live above the poverty line, comprise 12.8 percent of the population and 11 percent of the workforce, even if 99.9 percent of all welfare recipients where African American, how does one even begin to try and support the argument that 90% of working African Americans are loyal to the Democratic Party because THEY get "government handouts". The answer is that the meme is unsupportable and African Americans fundamentally understand that.

The reality is that the "free stuff" meme is nothing more than a new variation of the Ronald Reagan "Welfare Queen" writ large.

So, It is the height of irony that the Republican Party's in its disingenuous attempt to find excuses for its abject failure to make inroads into the African American electorate to promote a blatantly racist stereotype that only acts to further cement African American antipathy towards the GOP, and as a result, ensures that 90+ precent of African Americans will remain loyal to the Democratic Party for the foreseeable future.
Do you even realize what you are saying here?

You're saying that this "systematic racism" against blacks are not supported by the facts you just presented. You're saying that the disproportionately high unemployment of blacks as reported is a blatant media fabrication, and that almost all blacks are employed. You're saying that UP is actually DOWN, and that it is the republicans and white people who created and enjoy all of the benefits of socialism and the welfare state.

Was this your true intention? Or are you making the mistake of kicking a cow turd on a hot sunny day?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:39 PM
 
2,764 posts, read 1,093,744 times
Reputation: 986
I'll buy this, up to a certain point. In Appalachia, there is a serious, heartbreaking, dibilitating Meth problem. It is 99% whites. Pure, simple, lock, stock and barrel. Why is that _________-_________ can't acknowledge problems with crime, young girls, women with multiple out of wedlock children, a horrible dropout rate and so forth. There is no shame in acknowldegement. There is much danger in denial. This is what I do not understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Thats your opinion. Normally the OP and I are opposite sides of the debate, on this one I agree with them. That is called being open minded and reasonable.
Yes many blacks are on welfare. Many Blacks are less than perfect. The same is true of whites, hispanics and asians.
We all bleed red and a black mans blood will work in my veins. I know this from first hand experience.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:40 PM
 
4,065 posts, read 1,646,274 times
Reputation: 2112
Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Nice propaganda and twisting of facts. If AA's are only 12.8 percent of the population HOW in the world could there be higher percentage of them collecting benefits? HOW? OF COURSE there will be more whites since they make up a much higher percentage of the population! That's the TOTAL though, what about the percentage of those 12.8% as compare to the percentage of total white population? Also, 3/4 of AA's live ABOVE the poverty line? I don't buy that as well, unless you are using some third world statistic for poverty line, since the poor in the US are actually considered middle class in other countries. And you use a biased magazine for these statistics? How do you like being lied to? You seem to fall for it every single time! Stop trying to act like there are no problems in your communities, that makes you a part of the problem and not the solution.
LOL, you really don't believe that nearly 75% of black Americans (in this country) don't live above the poverty line??? And it is hilarious that you are even complaining about the source's age for this information since in 1992, MORE black Americans lived in poverty than we do today!!! You are pretty hilarious. You should have felt content with the 1992 article as actually less than 1/4 of black people live in poverty in this country today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
These numbers are irrelevant if you want to make any type of honest comparison since they do not account for the population difference.
The population difference is not the point of the OP. The OPs point is that conservatives say that black people vote Dem just because they want a handout, because most black Americans don't receive handouts! That is all. No population differences needed. Over 75% of black people are not living in poverty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Of course it does. Although I don't necessarily agree with the meme that Blacks want handouts. I believe Blacks simply support big government for a myriad of reasons.

However if a group of people are disproportinately on welfare stands to reason they would support government handouts. Whether they make up the majority of recipients is irrelevant. I listen to Black talk radio nearly everyday and repeatedly one of the reasons the hosts and listeners cite for supporting Dems is because the GOP wants to cut various programs etc.

Are logic and reasoning skills taught in schools any longer?
I listen to black talk radio every day too. Maybe you listen to local program that I don't but rarely are various social programs mentioned as reason why black people don't like the GOP and don't vote for them. I do remember when the sCHIP program was going to be cut, people were upset, but not just black people, or white liberals were upset about that here, many conservatives who depended on it for their children's medical insurance was upset (as many people here in GA use our CHIP program - Peachcare for Kids. People can make over 60K per year and use this program so it wasn't just the black people upset about it). Let me think another program that I know is hotly debated in the UEI program extension. A lot of people are split on this, even black people are but on a whole I think most Americans in general were in for the extension of benefits a couple years ago. I think right now though that many people don't feel the same about the extension as they once did no matter their ethnicity.

In your area, are they speaking about specific cuts? I know a lot of black areas don't like to see funding for community programs cut, especially at this time of the year as that corresponds to mini-crime waves and many people see these sorts of programs (mostly teen job programs) as a way to keep kids out of trouble and off the street while their parents are working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
The point still is that the OP tried to use a 20 year old article to deceive. THAT IS THE POINT I'M MAKING! The article and what the OP stated is WRONG! It's as simple as that. Maybe next time the OP could just say what they mean and mean what they say without using witchcraft and hocus pocus trickery to try and get their point across.

The OP isn't wrong and you should look up current poverty statistics for black Americans if you really want to know the truth. Over 75% (3/4) of black people in this country, that means around 30 million out of 40 million, do not live in poverty and aren't on welfare.

Oh, and forgot to mention in regards to government jobs. Do those of you who see them as handouts or some sort of government dependence think that the military is a social welfare program or the public school system, the fire department, the police department, your mayors, city councilmen/alderman, state representatiaves, state senators, federal representatives, federal senators, the supreme court, lawyers who work at the DOJ, NASA employees, CDC employees....I could go on and on. Are all of these people getting government hand outs and due to that, are they more inclined to vote democratic? Many of them get WAY better benefits than a bus driver. Vets get health benefits for life and don't even have to put in 20 years to get it, unlike a bus driver has to in order to get his pension (which may be taken from him, career officers will get their pensions, guaranteed, and they have free housing and an excellent school system for their children due to DoDEA).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2012, 01:44 PM
 
16,148 posts, read 5,294,967 times
Reputation: 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Thats your opinion. Normally the OP and I are opposite sides of the debate, on this one I agree with them. That is called being open minded and reasonable.
Yes many blacks are on welfare. Many Blacks are less than perfect. The same is true of whites, hispanics and asians.
We all bleed red and a black mans blood will work in my veins. I know this from first hand experience.
What do you mean that's MY opinion? The OP was pure BS based on a biased article from Ebony magazine from 20 years ago. No opinions necessary, it was and still IS BS! It was unjustifiable to post such a blatant deception to try and prove a silly point that everyone already knows.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:41 PM.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top