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If that person isn't doing anything to improve his/her situation, yes. No jobs where you are? Go somewhere else. Start your own small company offering services to fill a need, etc. Don't just sit there, say "poor me," and expect ever-increasing government handouts.
The U.S. Census sure seems to think they do. From their own data...
The census also seems to think we're talking about less than 3% of the population of females (Table 3). And that data isn't broken down in to subsets that might skew the data, such as age, education level, etc.
What I bolded is absolutely correct. The fact that a person works hard, is honest, etc. has nothing to do with fairness. It has to do with virtue, but we are not having a discussion on morality.
S**T happens and you deal with it. People who are successful don't make excuses when things go to hell, they find a way through it. The lazy/ignorant use poor circumstances as an excuse to sit there, collect a government check and do nothing about it.
As soon as we started discussing a flat tax, we automatically brought in morality. Even though it would be nice to have a discussion of what would be better for the country from an economic perspective, divorced from normative assertions, it's simply not going to happen.
In this country, there is a belief that willpower is all you need to get ahead. The premise, then, is those who succeed did so because they asserted themselves, and those who failed simply didn't try hard enough. But, this flies in the face of behavioral sciences and decades of data.
As soon as we started discussing a flat tax, we automatically brought in morality. Even though it would be nice to have a discussion of what would be better for the country from an economic perspective, divorced from normative assertions, it's simply not going to happen.
In this country, there is a belief that willpower is all you need to get ahead. The premise, then, is those who succeed did so because they asserted themselves, and those who failed simply didn't try hard enough. But, this flies in the face of behavioral sciences and decades of data.
How is flat tax a conversation on morality? It is an issue of justice, not morality. Every person paying the same percentage is fair. Any progressive tax system is imposing morality on people's financial situations. A person should pay for what they use. Period. That is a simple statement. And obviously there is an element of luck involved in getting ahead, but there is ABSOLUTELY data that shows trying harder dramatically increases your chances of success. Only 11% of all wealth of millionaires in this country was inherited. Is hard work the only factor that contributes to success? Obviously not. No one has ever made that claim (and that is what your 'decades of data' proves to be the case). There is also decades of data that shows that to a large extent a person makes their own luck.
So tell me, what are you going to do with your time today where you aren't at your job? Read, hang out with friends, or study to improve yourself in your field? One of those three options will increase your chances of success. Can you guess which one it is?
And please do shove that no more tax breaks or tax loopholes bull****. You know as well as I do that would last about a week.
Especially the tax loophole. Do you even know what a loophole is? It's a mistake. Something that wasn't mean to be in there but is, often because terms aren't defined or defined too loosely.
What I bolded is absolutely correct. The fact that a person works hard, is honest, etc. has nothing to do with fairness. It has to do with virtue, but we are not having a discussion on morality.
S**T happens and you deal with it. People who are successful don't make excuses when things go to hell, they find a way through it. The lazy/ignorant use poor circumstances as an excuse to sit there, collect a government check and do nothing about it.
Surely we do not have to remind you about the bank bailouts do we?
Cons love the flat tax because it means a tax cut for the rich and a tax increase for the poor
Or people favor a flat tax because economically it will create a system which brings this country out of debt, and will make an individual responsible for their own lives.
Are you against working towards either of those two goals?
It is a conversation on morality because $1000 means something different to the bottom 1% than to the top 1%. So, while a flat tax is both easier to understand and more equal in terms of % of income paid, it is not more equal in terms of ability to pay. So, a person who earns $20k would pay $2k at a 10% flat tax, while a person who earns $1 million would pay out $100,000. That $2k means a lot more to the person earning $20k than the $100,000 does to the millionaire. Because of this, it becomes a question of fairness, of ability to pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
And obviously there is an element of luck involved in getting ahead, but there is ABSOLUTELY data that shows trying harder dramatically increases your chances of success. Only 11% of all wealth of millionaires in this country was inherited. Is hard work the only factor that contributes to success? Obviously not. No one has ever made that claim (and that is what your 'decades of data' proves to be the case). There is also decades of data that shows that to a large extent a person makes their own luck.
Actually, based on the arguments in the C-D forums, a lot of members believe hard work is the determining factor in one's financial success. It is as if they have discounted concepts such as networks and luck: luck to have good genetics, or to be born in to the right family (does anyone really think a guy like Romney would have gotten where he was without his father, his father's money, or his father's connections?), to be born in the right area (a brilliant child in an awful neighborhood or school might not go anywhere, by no fault of the child).
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