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Old 12-16-2012, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Rural Northern California
1,020 posts, read 2,750,834 times
Reputation: 833

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
And what is your solution? Gun control is a total joke. And you know it. Your solution is "gun banning." You want NO guns in the hands of "private persons." For the record here, I am NOT a private person. I am one of the few who would have a gun, as a sworn police officer. However, I shall move on.

So, let us ban ALL guns. As of January 1, 2013. NO private ownership of guns. You and all of the other liberals slap each other on the backs and declare, "victory." Now what? The guns I own, which are actually very few, will be on the earth, when your great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren are dead. They will last 1,000 years plus. That is for the 4 personally owned firearms I have. What about the entire United States? The MILLIONS of guns out there, which will last for the next thousand years. What about them?

Or do you and all the other liberal gun control advocates, advocate sending men/women into peoples homes, searching them, violating the 4th Amendment, et al to confiscate said guns? Are you for that? Do you realize the number of gun fights you would be sending the police into and the number of deaths there would be?

Do you understand, right now, as we speak, THOUSANDS of persons are buying guns, ammunition, etc and placing them in waterproof containers and burying them all over the country? What? Are you going to arrest and incarcerate, ALL of these people because they cannot provide you and your liberal cohorts with those guns? What about the illegal gun trade which will spring up across the Mexican Border? China, and every other country in the world, will make MILLIONS of AK's, etc and send them to Mexico. The drug cartels will smuggle them into the US, just like marijuana and crank.

Oh but the people will turn them in if requested. Yes, SOME will. The majority will not. Then what? What then? Kick in doors and confiscate them? I've already addressed that. Are you going to do that? I won't. I'd refuse. So were back to square one. Gun control is a lie. Its another feel good measure, to make some limp wristed liberals sleep good at night and feel as if they made a difference. They, of course, have not. But hell, it looks good.
Excellent post. I think it's important to note that gun control doesn't actually do any good, but that doesn't matter, because that's not what it's about. Fundamentally, gun control is about making people feel better about themselves. I also think it's important to note that gun control is not fundamentally a left/right issue, I'm not a Republican, but I am firmly against gun control. In my local area, the conservative talk show host is supposedly a Republican, but he has, on several occasions, had on air tirades in support of an assault weapons ban. On the other hand, there are many Democrats (I know several) who are opposed to gun control. Gun control is about thinkers vs feelers. If you think about the issue in a calm, rational manner, it's obvious that gun control won't change anything (except disarm law abiding citizens), but if you're the type who makes decisions based on your emotions, gun control feels really good because you're taking evil guns off the street.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Chesterfield,Virginia
4,919 posts, read 4,825,180 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Widowmaker2k View Post
Excellent post. I think it's important to note that gun control doesn't actually do any good, but that doesn't matter, because that's not what it's about. Fundamentally, gun control is about making people feel better about themselves. I also think it's important to note that gun control is not fundamentally a left/right issue, I'm not a Republican, but I am firmly against gun control. In my local area, the conservative talk show host is supposedly a Republican, but he has, on several occasions, had on air tirades in support of an assault weapons ban. On the other hand, there are many Democrats (I know several) who are opposed to gun control. Gun control is about thinkers vs feelers. If you think about the issue in a calm, rational manner, it's obvious that gun control won't change anything (except disarm law abiding citizens), but if you're the type who makes decisions based on your emotions, gun control feels really good because you're taking evil guns off the street.
The Government 'knows' that this is how the 'Feel Gooders' think but .. The Government has a more sinister reason for Gun Grabbing!

You did a fine job of explaining the first half of the weapons ban movement so I'll bet that you can do as well in explaining the second half!?
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,200,144 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
There will always be men with little willies who want big guns.
Women make up a major proportion of purchasers of handguns - BIG and small.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:33 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,849,164 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
2nd Amendment or not, 2013 will be the year that the gun culture club gets the wake up call that it has had coming. Threads like this only make the case for some kind of revisit of the Framer's Document. Tell me something else besides the Bible and the Constitution that resists progress so obsessively.

H
As far as the Constitution is concerned what you label progress I label tyranny.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:02 AM
 
Location: Rural Northern California
1,020 posts, read 2,750,834 times
Reputation: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClose View Post
The Government 'knows' that this is how the 'Feel Gooders' think but .. The Government has a more sinister reason for Gun Grabbing!

You did a fine job of explaining the first half of the weapons ban movement so I'll bet that you can do as well in explaining the second half!?
Well, I try not be cynical and think about the 'control' aspect of gun control, but I will certainly admit that it exists. Our founding fathers absolutely knew this, and one of the primary causes of our revolution was the British government confiscating civilian arms (this also figured prominently in India). I know that there are some at the top who do not want an armed populace, and they will play the heartstrings of every day Americans like a fiddle in an effort to gain support for gun control. I think, for true supporters of liberty, our best argument is to point out the numerous logical fallacies of gun control legislation, and stray away from shadowy overtures of evil and conspiratorial governments. As supporters of freedom, we have to shed the cliches that we believe in a new world order or that we are afraid that the Feds are coming for our guns, because that's not likely, and paints us in the corner of extremists. We're not extremists, we're supporters of freedom and liberty, and we acknowledge the fact that firearms are the right hand of liberty. To steal from one of my favorite politicians, Daniel Hannan (a British representative in the EU), what makes the United States a great country comes from the fact our institutions elevate the individual to being the most important member of our government. The first words in the United States constitution are "We the people," while the first words in the European Union constitution are "his majesty the king of the Belgians." If that doesn't say something about the priority the USA puts on individual rights, I don't know what does.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Chesterfield,Virginia
4,919 posts, read 4,825,180 times
Reputation: 2659
Widowmaker2k

See!

I 'knew' that you could do it!

I only disagree with the points of conspiracy.

Every Dictatorship has started with the absolute confiscation of any and all types of arms.

I do not believe that this government wouldn't want to do the same .. given the opportunity.

Daniel Hannan gave one of the Greatest speeches that I have heard in my lifetime!
(Nothing to do with this topic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyHhe2WWU2A
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:21 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,115,131 times
Reputation: 16638
It's simple.

Gun ownership: Either you have the right - or - you need permission.

And if you need permission from government, how did government get that delegated power without YOUR permission?
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:31 AM
 
Location: Chesterfield,Virginia
4,919 posts, read 4,825,180 times
Reputation: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
It's simple.

Gun ownership: Either you have the right - or - you need permission.

And if you need permission from government, how did government get that delegated power without YOUR permission?
Like everything else they have done .. they TAKE what doesn't belong to them.

They 'delegate' their own power and the sheep go along because .. "It's the Government"!

There is NO delegated powers, as regards the Second Amendment within the constitution such as the ones that they have TAKEN!

Quote:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
And yet they have 'infringed' and will continue to TRY and 'infringe' ever further!

The sheep will cheer them on!
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,923,168 times
Reputation: 3415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
There will always be men with little willies who want big guns.
And you know the size of their willies HOW??
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,115,131 times
Reputation: 16638
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClose View Post

Quote:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
And yet they have 'infringed' and will continue to TRY and 'infringe' ever further!
Actually, the wording of the 2nd amendment is deceptive.
"People have the right to bear arms" -but- militiamen are under the legal obligation to train, fight, and die on command.

By law, all able bodied male citizens, 17-45, are the militia. And the militia CAN be regulated in the manner in which they "bear arms"... they're under orders.

The Supreme Court has held, in Butler v. Perry, 240 U.S. 328 (1916), that the Thirteenth Amendment does not prohibit "enforcement of those duties which individuals owe to the state, such as services in the army, MILITIA, on the jury, etc." In Selective Draft Law Cases, 245 U.S. 366 (1918), the Supreme Court ruled that the military draft was not "involuntary servitude".

If not involuntary servitude banned by the 13th amendment, it must be VOLUNTARY SERVITUDE.
Okay - the militiamen VOLUNTEERED to be so regulated.
No problem.
Citizenship is a voluntary assertion. If citizenship was imposed at birth, that would make civic duties into involuntary servitude, and banned by the 13th amendment.
Moving on.

Reference:
Title 10 USC Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes
Title 50 USC Sec. 453. Registration (Selective Service)

Art. 1, Sec. 8, USCON (1789)
Congress shall have power ... To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

Articles of Confederation, VI. (1777)
...every State shall always keep up a well-regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutered, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of filed pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage.
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