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Old 07-28-2012, 01:51 PM
 
47,527 posts, read 66,668,247 times
Reputation: 22408

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
The banks got a bailout. Essentially, the richest. Why did they need a bailout? What about letting competition take over the markets. Isn't that what capitalism is all about?? Why the changing of the rules?


As far as your 1st paragraph, do you have links to back up your statements? At 1st nobody knows what their message is, and then everybody seems to know exactly what the movement stands for.

So since you've done your research on the movement (not just clicked on links for articles) let's have an intelligent debate about it.
Immigrants Join Protest as Occupy Wall Street Movement Grows – CIP Americas

I can get you many many more sources -- or you could find them yourself -- the OWS is all for having unlimited numbers of cheap labor immigrants brought in -- yet they pretend to care about wages. Any halfwit knows that massive immigration is about bringing wages down.
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:35 PM
Status: "Smash Communism" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
24,315 posts, read 20,125,747 times
Reputation: 24154
Ugh, this mess is still going on???

GTown, what the heck do you want? Do you want government imposed prosperity, which has never worked, and never will work? Prosperity is earned, not legislated. It has done a lot of damage to this once great country, that used to be all about picking one's self up by their bootstraps. Not everyone made it. That was fine. Everyone still had an opportunity to work towards a better life. You seem to believe that everyone who works hard, should inherently obtain success, which was never the way it worked.

With government intervention, we were given the gifts of...

1. bloated government sector that is a parasite of the private sector. It has had a big hand in chasing a lot of decent paying jobs somewhere else, as well as making others uncompetitive on the global playing field. As the private sector became more competitive, this sector continued to be one driven by waste and squalor. Unfortunately, when the government sector contracts out of absolute necessity, many of these workers will be far too soft and uncompetitive in the private sector. These people will scream bloody murder regarding the actual demands of the private sector. Will you be playing YOUR violin?

2. Bloated RE prices that actually made home ownership unaffordable for the average American. "Everybody" was basically given equal access to home ownership, even if they should not have owned a home. More consumers drove prices up for everybody. It eventually collapsed when the free market finally made it's final ruling. Middle class Americans basically lost 40% of their wealth as a result of the collapse. Prosperity...

3. 300% increase in tuition for students thanks to government intervention in student loans. Again, equal access has resulted in a drastic rise in the expense, actually making it unaffordable for many, including those who should have actually been going to college in the first place. Before, people could work their way through and pay for college. Today there are not enough jobs to pay for college, and even if there were, they don't pay enough to afford an education, and even if you get an education, there are not enough jobs for graduates coming out of college. Prosperity

4. 1 in 7 on food stamps today. Including many college students who should not have access to subsidized food.

5. Many many more examples. Try doing your own research so you can add more examples on to this list.



Mircea, I would like to see some evidence that the global shift is going according to plan. China has a serious RE bubble and they are running out of consumers in America and Europe for their cheap breakable goods. In theory, this shift should work. In the real world, one has to ask... Can a nation that has no taste for consumption really be turned into a consumer driven economy if the wages don't afford the goods they produce? These folks are very much focused on saving, not so much consuming. Furthermore, many are returning back to the rice patties because employment opportunities are drying up. This appears to be something of a world wide recession/depression brewing.

For better or worse, the success or failure of America and Europe still has a big influence on how the rest of the world fairs. Yes, the seeds have been planted... Let's see if they can survive the frost...

As I mentioned in the Work and Employment forum, I believe they are trying to turn Africa into a consumer goods manufacturing nation for China's own future middle class. They are basically trying to follow in our footsteps. It appears to be a race against the clock.

We are still the number one manufacturing nation, and we are still offering strong competition against the Chinese and slave wage nations believe it or not. We are still a mecca for technology, including that in manufacturing. This is a high tech driven sector, so we will see who wins the tug of war. Labor is increasingly becoming a more insignificant part of manufacturing costs in this country. THAT, my friend, is prosperity. Survival of the fittest.
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Old 07-28-2012, 03:42 PM
 
2,930 posts, read 2,139,297 times
Reputation: 1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
Please provide links, or some type of evidence. Otherwise stop spreading disinformation.
You were probably hoping that there wouldn't be a reply. Sorry to burst your Occupy rant bubble.
Surely you are really not that ignorant about the warnings of Freddie and Fannie? The way you throw around support for the occupy bowel movement, one would figure you knew all the facts.


Apparently not. Bush administration repeated warned the the GSEs need more oversight and reform. Seventeen times the administration warned of impending problems.
http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/the-white-house-warned-congress-about-fannie-mae-freddie-mac-17-times-in-2008-alone/
It was not the banks that created the mortgage crisis. It was, plain and simple, Congress who forced everybody to go and give mortgages to people who were on the cusp.
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2011/11/3971362/bloomberg-plain-and-simple-congress-caused-mortgage-crisis-not-bank
Frank, in his most detailed explanation to date about his actions, said in an interview he missed the warning signs because he was wearing ideological blinders. He said he had worried that Republican lawmakers and the Bush administration were going after Fannie and Freddie for their own ideological reasons and would curtail the lenders’ mission of providing affordable housing.

“I was late in seeing it, no question,’’ Frank said about the lenders’ descent into insolvency.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2010/10/14/frank_haunted_by_stance_on_fannie_freddie/
As for the demands that Occupy made:

The "Occupy Wall Street" protesters have listed 13 proposed demands from their website as reported by Kerry Pickett of the Washington Times.

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage.


Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system.


Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Deman four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.


Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.


Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.


Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.


Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.


Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.


Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books."
.
Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.


Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.
If you have any more questions about "disinformation", please feel free to ask.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:23 PM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,624,192 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Immigrants Join Protest as Occupy Wall Street Movement Grows – CIP Americas

I can get you many many more sources -- or you could find them yourself -- the OWS is all for having unlimited numbers of cheap labor immigrants brought in -- yet they pretend to care about wages. Any halfwit knows that massive immigration is about bringing wages down.
that seems strange.

so why would the protesters do this , assuming this is correct information?
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,726 posts, read 5,895,107 times
Reputation: 4247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sol11 View Post
As for the demands that Occupy made:
The "Occupy Wall Street" protesters have listed 13 proposed demands from their website as reported by Kerry Pickett of the Washington Times.

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage.


Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system.


Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Deman four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.


Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.


Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.


Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.


Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.


Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.


Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books."
.
Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.


Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.
These so called "Demands" are so childish that when they were first viewed they appeared to be the work of a classroom of 6th graders with vivid imaginations. If this nonsense were actually implemented, the result would be a either a totalitarian society or one of near total anarchy. North Korea or Somalia, take their choice, would then be what the Flea Party would have, not the option of leeching off of their over indulgent Boomer and Gen X parents.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,634,298 times
Reputation: 3412
Quote:
Originally Posted by sol11 View Post
You were probably hoping that there wouldn't be a reply. Sorry to burst your Occupy rant bubble.
Surely you are really not that ignorant about the warnings of Freddie and Fannie? The way you throw around support for the occupy bowel movement, one would figure you knew all the facts.


Apparently not. Bush administration repeated warned the the GSEs need more oversight and reform. Seventeen times the administration warned of impending problems.
http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/the-white-house-warned-congress-about-fannie-mae-freddie-mac-17-times-in-2008-alone/
It was not the banks that created the mortgage crisis. It was, plain and simple, Congress who forced everybody to go and give mortgages to people who were on the cusp.
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2011/11/3971362/bloomberg-plain-and-simple-congress-caused-mortgage-crisis-not-bank
Frank, in his most detailed explanation to date about his actions, said in an interview he missed the warning signs because he was wearing ideological blinders. He said he had worried that Republican lawmakers and the Bush administration were going after Fannie and Freddie for their own ideological reasons and would curtail the lenders’ mission of providing affordable housing.

“I was late in seeing it, no question,’’ Frank said about the lenders’ descent into insolvency.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2010/10/14/frank_haunted_by_stance_on_fannie_freddie/
As for the demands that Occupy made:
The "Occupy Wall Street" protesters have listed 13 proposed demands from their website as reported by Kerry Pickett of the Washington Times.

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage.


Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system.


Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Deman four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.


Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.


Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.


Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.


Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.


Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.


Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books."
.
Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.


Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.
If you have any more questions about "disinformation", please feel free to ask.

I bet you wonder why OWS isn't getting national support... This list of "DEMANDS" is for the most part absurd and ridiculous...
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:31 PM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,624,192 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by sol11 View Post
The "Occupy Wall Street" protesters have listed 13 proposed demands from their website as reported by Kerry Pickett of the Washington Times.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.


Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt.



These two points stick out most to me.

Why would we want to open the borders? (would lead to an invasion of 3rd Worlders)

Why would we want to cancel all foreign debt (owed to the US)? (why should the 3rd World get free money?)

how would that help the US?
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:33 PM
 
5,190 posts, read 4,624,192 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.


Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.
and how would these two demands be paid for?
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,568 posts, read 12,213,446 times
Reputation: 9386
If you want to attack and alter the system- You had better know how it works and who is who- The occupy movement did not have a clue on who was who....Much like the Black Block in Toronto did not have a clue....they smashed widows willy nilly and did not go near any of the prime older smaller buildings where the true power elite use as a bases....Those in control are so low profile even politicians our out of that loop.

The occupy folks...were like kids screaming and kicking at the kings door...meanwhile they had the wrong house. They assume that the great power mongers all sit in big black towers ....funny - as they protest those in control of the money supply walk right through them un-noticed.
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:14 PM
Status: "Smash Communism" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
24,315 posts, read 20,125,747 times
Reputation: 24154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
that seems strange.

so why would the protesters do this , assuming this is correct information?
Because they live in a fantasy world void of any logic or recognizable thought process. Hence, even the liberal media refused to pay them any attention. If anything, the elite in this country might very well have been considering caving on some demands at some point, if it means preventing such a black eye from soiling the image of this great nation. How weak we must appear when THESE embarrassments are representing us on the global playing field.

And when a tree falls, does it make a sound? When illegals protest, do ANY Americans really give a crap? The obvious response should be, if ya don't like the way things are done in this country, go back home. I certainly won't be standing in their way. In fact, I would be more than willing to give them a friendly boot in the behind back to their own country.
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