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Firstly, U.K already has programs aimed at helping people who fall below the poverty-line.
Secondly, to answer the hypothetical bit; yes, If I were in control, I would incur debt to feed the poor.
And the label of "liberal", "conservative", "bruce-lee" or "king kong" is of no consequence to me.
Were you equally animated when U.S incurred 2 trillion of debt to fight a micky-mouse war?
How come liberals always assume that conservatives support war?
The only conservatives who supported the war were the ones who didn't have to fight in it.
...and it is stupid to go into debt to support any social cause (except for things like emergency assistance after major natural disasters).
You don't fix one problem by creating another one.
Give me a break, will ya? I don't sit around here all day waiting for you (or anyone else) to respond to one of my posts, so that I may deliver a prompt reply.
Your post was so rude, your lucky to get this. Read my reply above for my response, and enjoy your NHS. We don't want that kind of health care here.
I don't expect you to sit around, i realise that people have lives to lead. You replied to several posts after i asked my question and also the post of another asking for clarification of your statement. It gave every indication of avoiding my question. If that was not the case and a pure oversight on your part then I apologise.
Your "Read my reply above for my response" still isn't answering the question which was where do you get your information from that people in Britain dislike the NHS. "A failed system that the British detest" was the phrase you used.
Now, i'm genuinely sorry if my post caused offence but for some reason being told what i think by someone living thousands of miles away about something that has been part of my families life for as long as i've known does tend to come across as being a little rude in itself. If i was to tell you what you think about Gun Control or Abortion or any one of many topics you'd think it rude of me as i don't know you or live in your country i'm pretty sure you'd agree. Maybe you'd ask me how i came to claim to be able to read your mind and to prove my assertion, as i am doing.
Now, if at all possible i'd still like to see the evidence that you have to support your claim about how i feel (as i'm British) about the NHS. Thank You.
That is also how the Swiss do it. Everyone has to buy basic coverage and the cost of that is heavily regulated. But, if you wish, you can by additional top-up coverage.
Same premise as some seniors purchasing gap-type insurance to cover what Medicare does not.
I like it. Fairness/Accessibility + Freedom of Choice.
On the last link; no need to read the first 47 pages as it deals with deaths due to the morbidly obese and serum cholesteral problem that is reaching epidemic proportions in the U.S. Instead scroll down to page 48 and commence your education about your fine health care system and here's an unsolicited opinion: for anyone in the U.S. to openly castigate any other country, especially those providing some form of universal health care, is just plain obfuscation of factual evidence, some provided by your own government.
One of the links even refers to the lack of data gathering to define those deaths caused by failure to get timely medical treatment almost certainly related to the cost of private coverage or lack of insurance altogethor. Most deaths are simply recorded as the result of whatever condition the person died of.
I guess you would say the Founders of our Republic (that's the United States, in case you don't know) were "idiots?"
You don't think that extracting the wealth of one group ("the rich") for redistribution to another group of the governments choosing is socialism?
And what do you call it when the government places limits on what a private industry may earn in profit, as has been done in the case of the so called "Affordable Care Act?"
What do you call it when the government mandates that a private insurance company cover "pre-existing conditions", which essentially allows one to wait till they are in need to purchase health insurance, and is most assuredly a recipe for bankruptcy of the insurance company?
I don't know what you may call it, but I don't call it free market capitalism, and it sure as hell isn't American. It is totalitarianism. It is tyranny.
And that is only part of what is wrong with the "AFA."
On your 2nd pt. what do you call taxing the poor and then shipping there jobs to Mexico and China 3rd pt. why would ins. co. keep those who have changed their jobs or that those jobs have been outsourced receive their medical care or as you at least 100,000 Americans die each year due to lack of ins.
Free market capitalism use's the Gov. more by buying congress critters to pass laws that favor only them and that is what I call fascism and that's where we are headed
Only read the first page. The people who planned the show failed completely. National healthcare? Dancing doctors and nurses? Really? They couldn't think of any traditional or cultural British, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh things to feature? Stonehenge, Beefeaters, Palace Guards, knights, Irish dance, and many other things could have been included in place of NHC. London Phillharmonic playing music to traditional dances, angelic children's choir singing as the winged bicycles move across the sky or light shows. And instead of fast paced pop rock music, a string of stately march music as the parade of nations moves through giving the fans time to enjoy their entrance into the stadium.
Gosh darn kids cutting' a rug and twisting' and a shoutin' on mah lawwwn with their dang sock hops!!!
Germany is an export powerhouse that does not have a huge lazy underclass such as the one the exists in America.
They hate inflation and deficits.
So their socialist medicine is, at least, paid for.
America is not Germany and Norway.
We can't have both socialism and budget surpluses in the U.S.
Too many able-bodied lazy people who try to milk the system but give nothing back but pain.
50 % of grown-up Germans don't pay income tax. Hundred of thousand of the highest educated Germans leave Germany every year to escape the heavy burden of supporting the non-producers. In Germany they say: "The brightest shoulders have to bear the heaviest burden". The burden for a lot of Germans is getting to much. I don't blame them. It's not that they only have to carry the burden of non-producers in Germany, now through EFSF and ESM they have to carry the non-producers of the rest of the Eurozone as well. When I talk to German enterpreneurs they tell me that Government is just getting to big in Germany. In Germany every month nearly half of your paycheck goes to the Government.
50 % of grown-up Germans don't pay income tax. Hundred of thousand of the highest educated Germans leave Germany every year to escape the heavy burden of supporting the non-producers. In Germany they say: "The brightest shoulders have to bear the heaviest burden". The burden for a lot of Germans is getting to much. I don't blame them. It's not that they only have to carry the burden of non-producers in Germany, now through EFSF and ESM they have to carry the non-producers of the rest of the Eurozone as well. When I talk to German enterpreneurs they tell me that Government is just getting to big in Germany. In Germany every month nearly half of your paycheck goes to the Government.
So it is your contention that nearly 50% of the Germany population who are adults don't pay tax. Therefore would it be accurate to assume that the reason why is because they are not working as income tax is deducted at source of paycheuqe for those employed.
Now; how do we rationalize the figure you've stated of 50% being carried by the other 50% without taking into accont that income tax is deducted at source and also Germany's productivity leading that of some other Euro's.
Could it be this is simply folks sitting in a bar griping?
So it is your contention that nearly 50% of the Germany population who are adults don't pay tax. Therefore would it be accurate to assume that the reason why is because they are not working as income tax is deducted at source of paycheuqe for those employed.
Now; how do we rationalize the figure you've stated of 50% being carried by the other 50% without taking into accont that income tax is deducted at source and also Germany's productivity leading that of some other Euro's.
Could it be this is simply folks sitting in a bar griping?
Germans labor productivity is due to stagnating wages over a decade now. It's great for exports and corporations but the average working Joe has no benefit at all. And yes only 50 percent of grown-up Germans pay income taxes. If you don't make more than 8000 € a year you don't pay income tax and your wage is subsidized by the government to welfare level. It's certainly not folks griping in bars. Spiegel wrote about this a few years back.
Add to that, that the Eurozone problems are supposed to be solved by Eurobonds and excessive printing of money. In other words transferring the wealth of german taxpayers to the European periphery. Destroying the savings of most Germans. You have a real estate boom right now in Germany because people are afraid of this. So it's no wonder that recent polls show that the majority of Germans want the Deutschmark back.
Germans labor productivity is due to stagnating wages over a decade now. It's great for exports and corporations but the average working Joe has no benefit at all. And yes only 50 percent of grown-up Germans pay income taxes. If you don't make more than 8000 € a year you don't pay income tax and your wage is subsidized by the government to welfare level. It's certainly not folks griping in bars. Spiegel wrote about this a few years back.
Add to that, that the Eurozone problems are supposed to be solved by Eurobonds and excessive printing of money. In other words transferring the wealth of german taxpayers to the European periphery. Destroying the savings of most Germans. You have a real estate boom right now in Germany because people are afraid of this. So it's no wonder that recent polls show that the majority of Germans want the Deutschmark back.
That doesn't surprise me in the least. I am actually vehemently against a unilateral monetary policy that enables the ECB (European Central Bank) to dictate terms irrespective of the democratic vote on European countries. Recently the situation of South America is becoming increasingly replicated except that instead of the US it is the major EU countries France and Germany administering restrictive austerity demands that basically blackmail democracies with the "sign up to our terms or else" self-flagellation of austerity.
As we saw in South America this eventually unravelled with countries continuing to have loans bestowed upon them as long as they continued to slash public spending (and damn the repurcussions if the measures produce regression and widespread poverty) and privatise lucrative cash cow state industries that the vultures hovering above are chomping at the bit to sink their teeth into.
The French election of Francois Hollande has promised to buck the austerity drive somewhat but something tells me sadly that Greece, Portugal and Spain are the juicy rocks of crack cocaine that that markets have their feasting eyes on now.
Conservatives across Europe are generally anti-Euro. So are many on the lso called 'left'. Conservatives don't like Europe because of what they perceive as 'pesky' EU regulations that 'stifle' enterprise. You know, like legislation against paying shirtbuttons and a slice of stale bread for instance or firing your secretary because she doesn't like getting her bottom pinched.
They are right on this issue though, for the wrong reasons. In the UK they pretend it's an issue of preferring not to be dicated to by Brussels but then are more than happy to see their country's utilities and infrastructure owned by the rest of Europe Europe, Qatar and China.
And although it's sad that EU regulations are less restrictive than UK law in many areas I can't pretend I don't agree with the main challenge against the Euro and EU as a political entity. Namely that it is too monolithic and intefering and that it destabilises economies by shredding through integral regulations and destroying poorer nation's ability to pace and a staggered set up with protections in place against being tainted unilaterally by the ravages of economic despair in a neighbouring country. Unrestrained neo-Liberalism between borders is dangerous and disables the ability of countries to shield themselves from cross border contagion.
It is also intrinsically undemocratic. The ECB now believes it has the power to vetoe any democratic choice it consoders unappetising. The recent elections in Greece were an example of just how bombarded the Greek people were with propaganda to the tune of "Vote Syriza and we will drop you like a hot stone".
The austerity stalwarts must be stopped and Hollande must stay strong and remain a resilient figure in France.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 08-01-2012 at 04:03 PM..
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