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I hope boorish nationalists like you don't rise to the fore again in Germany. It's like being at an England v Germany football match and hearing English thugs singing "Two world wars and one world Cup doo da, doo da", crowing about the Battle Of Britain or singing "One bomber Harris, there's only one bomber Harris" like all the innocent lives lost during the war only died so future generations could fall prey to the same petty jealousies and playground mentality complexes.
That's all we need in the middle of Europe right now.You're going to have to be more specific about the "freeloading French" too. Hollande has only barley begun his reign as Pesident so am I right in assuming that neo-conservative Sarkozy has been the cause of all this friction? If so, yes he wasn't the best leader France ever had so well spotted, time to give Hollande a chance.
But this "freeloading French" remark let's analyse it a little more closely. As far as I'm aware Germany does very well out of being the powerhouse of the Euro. France is the second biggest nation of Europe connected to the Euro with Britain, France and Germany being the economic powerhouses of Europe.
France is self-sufficient as a nation. It could withdraw from the Euro tomorrow if it wan't for the domino effect and self-inflicted pain that in it itself would cause the rest of Europe. Now are you saying that because Germany is the biggest economic powerhouse in Europe that it has a sense of entitlement to be able to dictate to other nations what they should do?
Wow!!! I'm shocked!!! I told you this Euro thing was a bad idea. Maybe now you'll listen. If France are considered a "freeloading" country as the second biggest member state, then what on Earth does that make Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece?
Guess it's time to get those dancing shoes on. It's going to get thundery out there. As ol blue eyes once said "There may be trouble ahead".
I see, I'm a Nationalist because I don't want the German Tax payer to be raped by the rest of Europe. Got it. You only make it worse by calling people who want a sovereign nation and not pay for other nations lifestyles nationalists. Shame on you. If Eurobonds are introduced it means that German borrowing costs will increase to 50 billion a year. It will only bailout France and the PIGS. So you want to rape the German Taxpayer to prop up the Eurozone? What a fascist you are.
I told you the Euro was a bad idea. I see you are finally coming in line. The Euro Project will create Civil War in Europe. Wait and see. The french are freeloaders because they retire at 60 while soon Germans will have to retire at 69 to pay for early French retirement through Eurobonds. The French live beyond their means. They cannot sustain their standard of living. THE UK taxpayer is subsidizing French Farming big time through the EU. Read the Telegraph, the british are sick and tired of it. At the same time Eurobonds will enable corrupt countries in the European periphery to sustain their spending levels. WHILE GERMANY IS PAYING FOR IT!!!! EUROBONDS AND ESM ARE THE NEW TREATY OF VERSAILLES!!! WE NEED TO BREAK UP THE EURO!!!!!
I told you the Euro will divide the people of Europe and revive old resentments that were boiling under the surface I'm glad you are listening to me now. Germany needs to exit the Euro.
Hollande will destroy the German Economy. He is in favor of Eurobonds and wants to prop up the french industry until they are on par with german industry. He wants to bankrupt his country and Germany has to pay for it. He is just like Mitterand who forced Germany into the Euro.
He is not very fond of the british either.
I see, I'm a Nationalist because I don't want the German Tax payer to be raped by the rest of Europe. Got it. You only make it worse by calling people who want a sovereign nation and not pay for other nations lifestyles nationalists. Shame on you. If Eurobonds are introduced it means that German borrowing costs will increase to 50 billion a year. It will only bailout France and the PIGS. So you want to rape the German Taxpayer to prop up the Eurozone? What a fascist you are.
I told you the Euro was a bad idea. I see you are finally coming in line. The Euro Project will create Civil War in Europe. Wait and see. The french are freeloaders because they retire at 60 while soon Germans will have to retire at 69 to pay for early French retirement through Eurobonds. The French live beyond their means. They cannot sustain their standard of living. THE UK taxpayer is subsidizing French Farming big time through the EU. Read the Telegraph, the british are sick and tired of it. At the same time Eurobonds will enable corrupt countries in the European periphery to sustain their spending levels. WHILE GERMANY IS PAYING FOR IT!!!! EUROBONDS AND ESM ARE THE NEW TREATY OF VERSAILLES!!! WE NEED TO BREAK UP THE EURO!!!!!
I told you the Euro will divide the people of Europe and revive old resentments that were boiling under the surface I'm glad you are listening to me now. Germany needs to exit the Euro.
Hollande will destroy the German Economy. He is in favor of Eurobonds and wants to prop up the french industry until they are on par with german industry. He wants to bankrupt his country and Germany has to pay for it. He is just like Mitterand who forced Germany into the Euro.
He is not very fond of the british either.
I think workers in certain types of employment should be able to retire at 60. What good is a 60 year old policeman going to be baring down on a teenage tearaway as he flees like a 100 metre sprinter from the scene of a crime?
We have to be realistic. Workers in labour intensive roles of employment are bound to be under more severe physical strain and that is the reality. How long can you expect a scaffolder, labourer or bricklayer to keep putting his body under such severe pressure day after day?
I'm sorry but I don't subscribe the "work until you drop" school of principle. Especially in a world where youth unemployment is unreasonably high across the developed world. If we had more balanced economies we could actually train young people instead of side-stepping them.
Inprovements in technology should have made work easier and retirement come earlier. Instead the reverse has happened. You have to ask yourself why and is it a coincedence that this policy of "work until you drop" has accidentally coincided with a re-distrubution of wealth from the bottom and middle up. Some chance.
I don't agree with the Euro as monetary policy. The argument we're having is one reason why. We shouldn't be arguing about what France is doing like we shouldn't be arguing about what Norway is doing because it doesn't impact on our lives.
This kind of resentment is only going to get worse the longer this situation is dragged out but please put the blame where it lies and on the politicians who created this shambles and if you want out of the Euro please vote for a politcial party that wants to make that happen. Where I do agree with you is in the abiding principle that each soverign nation should be in control of its own budgets and be able to determine its own future.
But because of contagion and the repurcussions of a domino collapse across Europe we both know that isn't going to happen anytime soon unfortunately.
The Euro Project will create Civil War in Europe. Wait and see.
I've seen a few posts over the last couple of months prophesying that. You do realise that for there to be a civil war it would have to within the borders of a country, involving the citizens of a sovereign state in conflict with their fellow nationals?
A European civil war is an impossibility as Europe isn't a country. You can claim that there will be war between seperate European states if you wish, although i believe you'd be wrong. People are dissatisfied with the current economic realities not with the citizens of other countries. The populations of countries and their governments may well not be overly impressed with the leaderships of other countries and the way that they are dealing with internal and external issues but it is one hell of a leap from that to declarations of war.
I have no idea how Europe is portrayed in the US media but i can assure you (though i doubt you'll believe me), we are not about to write a new book of internal European conflict, nor a chapter, a page or even a line...
I've seen a few posts over the last couple of months prophesying that. You do realise that for there to be a civil war it would have to within the borders of a country, involving the citizens of a sovereign state in conflict with their fellow nationals?
A European civil war is an impossibility as Europe isn't a country. You can claim that there will be war between seperate European states if you wish, although i believe you'd be wrong. People are dissatisfied with the current economic realities not with the citizens of other countries. The populations of countries and their governments may well not be overly impressed with the leaderships of other countries and the way that they are dealing with internal and external issues but it is one hell of a leap from that to declarations of war.
I have no idea how Europe is portrayed in the US media but i can assure you (though i doubt you'll believe me), we are not about to write a new book of internal European conflict, nor a chapter, a page or even a line...
I don't think we should be complacent about internal civil wars. Look at the rise of the far-right in Greece and bare in mind that in and around the Greek elections there were even nostalgic, dewy meadowed eulogies to the thuggish brutality of the Reagan backed authoritarian junta. Reminiscing on the period before democracy and transition many British commentaros began scribing irresponsible articles romantically mythologising this savage period of regression and strangling of ideology within the country.
What is often forgotten is that corruption, restrictions in freedom and rigged economic statistics were so deeply embedded during Greek's totalitarian regime that the country has been struggling to come to terms with its deficiencies ever since.
Even today innocent migrants are being hunted down by packs of thugs using the symbol of Greek nationalism from which to administer heavy doses of violence and junts like oppression.
Moving forward as humanity is about learning from our past and using it to shape a better future. I think we should be cautious about overstating the dangers of civil war but also not complacent about the possibilities of tensions rising within nations that could spill out across borders as economic retrenchment gathers momentum and friction arises as a natural consequence.
In John Gray's perceptive analysis of the late 90's 'False Dawn: The Delusions Of Global Capitalism' he predicted war across Europe as well as the finnacial crisis that we are now living through. He was laughed at for predicting the financial crisis in the booming late 90's.
Let's not be too readily amused at the prospect of conflict within Europe as a result of what is happening. Complacency is as dangerous as the economic policies that are wreaking havoc at the behest of the 'market knows best' brigadiers right now who are leading their sovereign economies like lambs to the slaughter in a turbulent climate akin to an economic version of the battle of the Somme in terms of ignorance and wholesale stupidity.
I've seen a few posts over the last couple of months prophesying that. You do realise that for there to be a civil war it would have to within the borders of a country, involving the citizens of a sovereign state in conflict with their fellow nationals?
A European civil war is an impossibility as Europe isn't a country. You can claim that there will be war between seperate European states if you wish, although i believe you'd be wrong. People are dissatisfied with the current economic realities not with the citizens of other countries. The populations of countries and their governments may well not be overly impressed with the leaderships of other countries and the way that they are dealing with internal and external issues but it is one hell of a leap from that to declarations of war.
I have no idea how Europe is portrayed in the US media but i can assure you (though i doubt you'll believe me), we are not about to write a new book of internal European conflict, nor a chapter, a page or even a line...
Unless of course another nation with seemingly unlimited resources finds it beneficial for some obscure reason to clandestinely destabilize your region to create internal strife!
Keep your eyes open for all the traditional signs of the playbook that's been used for the last 5 decades at least.
I don't think we should be complacentabout internal civil wars. Look at the rise of the far-right in Greece and bare in mind that in and around the Greek elections there were even nostalgic, dewy meadowed eulogies to the thuggish brutality of the Reagan backed authoritarian junta. Reminiscing on the period before democracy and transition many British commentaros began scribing irresponsible articles romantically mythologising this savage period of regression and strangling of ideology within the country.
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Let's not be too readily amused at the prospect of conflict within Europe as a result of what is happening. Complacency is as dangerous as the economic policies that are wreaking havoc at the behest of the 'market knows best' brigadiers right now who are leading their sovereign economies like lambs to the slaughter in a turbulent climate akin to an economic version of the battle of the Somme in terms of ignorance and wholesale stupidity.
I would agree with you, complacency about the prospect of civil wars would not be intelligent nor prudent. I have seen civil conflict first hand with UNPROFOR in 96, Kosovo in '99 and Sierra Leone in '00 and "readily amused at the prospect of conflict within Europe" i am not. I was unaware that i gave any indication that i did.
A future civil war within an EU country due to the currant financial circumstances as hypothesised by itsjustmeagain is not one that i am remotely convinced by. Not being convinced though does not make me ignorant to possibilities, however unlikely i feel them to be, which is very.
The OP has certainly astounded the majority of the civilized world with that assertion. The Olympic opening ceremony was a political showcase?
Now the entire foundation of my existence is shaky. (Never mind that the Olympic rule for events was supposed to be participation by 39 nations--and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me in which 39 nations is "synchronized swimming" a participatory sport).
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