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I'm with you - I don't understand how this person visiting the US managed to find themselves in such areas. I have lived in the US most of my life and haven't seen the stuff this person has seen!
Now - when I visit the UK next year, I will do my best to avoid these areas as well:
Birmingham isn't that bad at all, look at that child playing football he might grow up to be the be the next Wayne Rooney. He's having a great craic so he is me boy. Nothing like playing the real version of football on the streets, that's how a true football player learns his skills. When I were a lad it was two broken milk bottles in the local alleyway for goalposts and a flagon of ale for any chid that scored a hat-trick. Them were the days.
But I'm afraid a few snapshots when the shutters are down of a few cherry picked neighburhoods in Bradford or Birmingham donesn't really do much to disprove my account of what I witnessed. The UK has its problems but most of them stem from the kind of abandonment of industry in the northern part of England in favour of relocating all the wealth and resources to London and the South East. I've written about this in detail so okay, thanks for your concern, that's mighty nice of you all.
But sadly all the statistics show that crime or rough neighbourhoods in the UK really are overall fairly mild in verocity campared to the ghettoes and meth towns of America. multi-Organised crime is a million dollar industry in the States and the culture of a sub-par meth addicted existence may have alot in common with substance abuse and alcoholism seen in the UK but the gang culture in the UK just isn't as wide in scope. The gangs here are a pale shadow of the menacing shotgun wielding thugs that are steet gangs and organised crime cartels in the United States.
The Mexican Mafia is so big now that it even needs British Barclays Banks to launder their money. What is it now an international plc with a board of directors? Or maybe just a plc that puts more money back into America than the Americans?
How could this happen to a gang that is incarcerated for life? What kind of message does that send? Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime? Or go to jail and you might be in with a shot of becoming a multi-millionaire? Very depressing choice. But then mayber these criminals are the ultimate 'enterprising' Americans. Taking the country by force and whupping ass like the cowboys to the Indians. You've got to love progression
As for my time in and around the West Coast I will tell you that you have serious problems in America. There are WHITE PEOPLE who are homeless and in poverty too. People living in tents in Las Vegas and in tunnels. Not all of them, in fact not even half of them are 'illegal aliens'. I am astonished that there are many posters on here who refuse to believe that.
As for all these comments that I couldn't have witnessed any overty I am absolutely astonished. You people are flat Earth deniers of epic proportions. Look at City Data's own statistics on Sonora:- Residents with income below the poverty level in 2009:
Sonora:
23.6%Whole state:
19.1%
Residents with income below 50% of the poverty level in 2009:
You admit California has problems? Sonora's poverty rates are above average on both counts for state and percentage of residents income below 50% of the poverty line. So is it really that difficult to belive that a state with alot of problems has a town that falls below the state average for poverty that has problems?
Wow! But hey, nothing to see here, right? East Sonora and Anseilm had similar problems and every stop I made on the way through to Monteray and Santa Barbera I witnessed similar social problems and poverty in places that were in fact considered 'tourism' areas. Now I'm not even digging out the worst America has to offer to compare with the worst Britain has to offer. I'm comparing towns and places near towns that had problems and that you wouldn't find in City Data if you spent a month trying. The reason I started this thread is because I expected better from the richest economy on the planet.
The UK could have done much better too. but instead of investing oil revenues long term Thatcher frittered away our future on tax cuts for the wealthy and sold all our housing stock to buy votes as well as privatising key industries that has led us to boom and bigger bust ever since. If we had of invested in our future like Norway did then we could have eradicated child poverty in the UK too. But the UK is the closest European country in spirit to the US and is the Atlantic Bridge to America. You have to remember that. That's why it has a milder parody of some of the problems seen in America but nowhere near on such a monolithic scale.
Last edited by Fear&Whiskey; 07-31-2012 at 04:59 AM..
[i]The current bunch of miscreants is nothing like that. Centrist Democrats, who talk a good game but don't do much about it, are battling increasingly radical Republicans, a fierce tribe of Bible-thumping know-nothings fueled by money from modern Robber Barons who want to sell the country off by the board foot and metric ton for their personal profit.
My heart breaks for this man but I wish he knew... I'm waiting for the bell to ring. Judicial branch better wake up and smell the high treason.
The observations of the OP strike me as what usually happens to foreigners visiting here who have been exposed to the media portrait of Americans- that we're all rich and live in mansions. The US is and always has been a country of stark contrasts- fed by our free capitalist- "every man for himself"- system. We've always had a huge poor underclass and that's where a lot of Americans and most recent immigrants end up.
The main difference between between us and other countries has been the possibility of raising ourselves out of poverty and many have succeeded- sometimes with generations of hard work. But the underclass has always been around in big numbers.
Yet things have declined in recent years - floods of illegals creating huge poverty pockets and the middle class slipping into poverty, the neglect of our infrastructure and the housing crash, foreign aid which always takes precedence over aid to our own people... the contrasts are becoming much more noticeable. Our political system offers us few real alternatives in leadership to elect.
But the ultra rich are happy because they thrive on cheap labor, destruction of labor unions, the lobbying and buying of politicians, no universal health care, and deregulation of banks and other companies- this is how they make their millions while the rest of us fight to hang on to our middle class status.
I am pretty sure that I just read an opinion piece written by an Obama voter and supporter.
I am sure glad I didn't have to feel the pain he says he did when I had my heart attack that had no pain involved but did involve a hurry up trip to the hospital, just in case. When they checked me they found that I had 3 arteries at least 85% plugged and 3 between 90 and 95%. Surely someone must have some other plans for me and I don't think they involve fighting the Republican party b but do think it might be just the opposite. Thus, you and I seldom agree.
Glad to hear you recovered well from your heart attack. That Medicare program is a pretty good deal.
But I'm afraid a few snapshots when the shutters are down of a few cherry picked neighburhoods in Bradford or Birmingham donesn't really do much to disprove my account of what I witnessed. The UK has its problems but most of them stem from the kind of abandonment of industry in the northern part of England in favour of relocating all the wealth and resources to London and the South East. I've written about this in detail so okay, thanks for your concern, that's mighty nice of you all.
Nor do a few cherry picked personal accounts of some odd trip you took to one corner of our nation do much to prove your point.
Quote:
But sadly all the statistics show that crime or rough neighbourhoods in the UK really are overall fairly mild in verocity campared to the ghettoes and meth towns of America. multi-Organised crime is a million dollar industry in the States and the culture of a sub-par meth addicted existence may have alot in common with substance abuse and alcoholism seen in the UK but the gang culture in the UK just isn't as wide in scope. The gangs here are a pale shadow of the menacing shotgun wielding thugs that are steet gangs and organised crime cartels in the United States.
Using your one trip to California (a very stressed state) and implying that your experiences there are indicative of an overall state of being in the US, would be like making sweeping assumptions of the UK by spending an afternoon in a Birmingham slum. Please.
The US is vast and diverse - much more so than the UK.
Quote:
As for my time in and around the West Coast I will tell you that you have serious problems in America. There are WHITE PEOPLE who are homeless and in poverty too. People living in tents in Las Vegas and in tunnels. Not all of them, in fact not even half of them are 'illegal aliens'. I am astonished that there are many posters on here who refuse to believe that.
As for all these comments that I couldn't have witnessed any overty I am absolutely astonished. You people are flat Earth deniers of epic proportions. Look at City Data's own statistics on Sonora:- Residents with income below the poverty level in 2009:
Sonora:
23.6%Whole state:
19.1%
Residents with income below 50% of the poverty level in 2009:
You admit California has problems? Sonora's poverty rates are above average on both counts for state and percentage of residents income below 50% of the poverty line. So is it really that difficult to belive that a state with alot of problems has a town that falls below the state average for poverty that has problems?
Wow! But hey, nothing to see here, right? East Sonora and Anseilm had similar problems and every stop I made on the way through to Monteray and Santa Barbera I witnessed similar social problems and poverty in places that were in fact considered 'tourism' areas. Now I'm not even digging out the worst America has to offer to compare with the worst Britain has to offer. I'm comparing towns and places near towns that had problems and that you wouldn't find in City Data if you spent a month trying. The reason I started this thread is because I expected better from the richest economy on the planet.
Like I said, you're judging an entire nation based on some very select experiences and basically one state - a state that DOES have serious economic issues. What if we judged all of the EU based on what's going on in Greece?
Inaccurate and skewered misinformation would be the result.
That's very interesting. I have to confess I haven't done much research into this subject but it sounds terrible. Thanks for your contribution.
The reservations are a result of what happens when a nation conquers indigenous people, who are conflicted as to whether they want to exist separately or become integrated into the American mainstream way of living. The problems on the reservations are not an indictment of welfare programs; they're indictment of a people who were not prepared to function independently and whose former ways of living off the land and its resources was wiped out of existence by American expansion.
We CAN'T factor out the scores of "involuntary minorities," because they're a part of the country. They don't live in some massive dungeon somewhere. They're Americans just like everyone else.
It's the same crap that was spouted on the thread about Canadians surpassing Americans in wealth. Pretty soon Canadians will be surpassing the US in every category except aggregate economic production. Like the U.S. Canada and other Western economies have plenty of darkies and visible minorities. Blaming it on darkies doesn't really address the problem. Maybe it would have helped the U.S. if, rather than spending another 100 years trying to enforce separate but equal, they would have instead spent more resources on trying to make rednecks accept the outcome of the civil war and helped each other get over it and get along. But they didn't do that.
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. Nothing like playing the real version of football on the streets, that's how a true football player learns his skills. When I were a lad it was two broken milk bottles in the local alleyway for goalposts and a flagon of ale for any chid that scored a hat-trick. Them were the days
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