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Old 08-02-2012, 07:35 PM
 
21,673 posts, read 12,797,087 times
Reputation: 16016

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Quote:
Originally Posted by An0nym0us88 View Post
I don't listen to right wing lies. I listen to both sides, I really do.

Maybe you should stop listening to left wing propaganda like healthcare in other countries are the best thing ever.

I haven't experienced either of them but I do know doctors that are my friends visited these countries to do surgeries and they all said it was terrible. Not because they're on the conservative side. They do make valid points.

Well since you listen to both sides here's some more info for you to consider.

Study links 45,000 U.S. deaths to lack of insurance | Reuters

Harvard Medical Study Links Lack of Insurance to 45,000 U.S. Deaths a Year - NYTimes.com

Florida Third Highest For Premature Deaths Due To Lack Of Health Insurance: Families USA (VIDEO)

http://www.pnhp.org/excessdeaths/hea...-US-adults.pdf

Death by Medicine and Medical Errors: Here's How to Protect Yourself

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus10.pdf

The last link you should find particularly intersting as it is compiled by your own government. I would personally skip the first 47 pages as they primarily deal with the number of you who are currently dying from morbid obesity and other serum cholesterol related problems that are reaching epidemic proportions but that's simply lifestyle choice issues.

The real meat and potatoes starts page 48 and is a real eye opener for all of you who seem willing to castigate ANY other universally provided health care system. Everything from your infant mortality rate (which is abysimal by the way) through your dental care to your unwarranted deaths through lack of seeking care due to costs is dealt with and if I may offer an unsolicitied opinion:

You should ignore your anecdotal bullcrap from aunt Martha, doctors who can make more income under a 'for profit' system or Herb who visited once. I'm here to tell you that all of your misconceptions are fed to you from a buraucracy with a vested interset in maintaining the status-quo.

Lastly; all Canadians maintain their basic universal provincial health care while travelling throughout the world but only for the parallel costs of that service were it provided in Canada. When travelling to the U.S most if not all Canadians are cautioned to "top-up" their insurance due to the absolutely ursurious costs of ANY medical service provided south of the 49th and that my friends is the same for any visitor to your country who desires to be indemnified from complete pennury (bankruptcy) through any unforeseen medical event.

You should also be aware that most, if not all, of the optional insurance providers (some being American based) will almost always opt to midevac (private flight with medical technician) Canadians home to Canada if any medical condition requires hospitalization and the condition allows for immediate repatriation.

Last edited by BruSan; 08-02-2012 at 07:55 PM..
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:33 AM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,880,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An0nym0us88 View Post
Let me ask you, my friend... Are you willing to risk for that kind of healthcare in the United States? What if it fails which I know it will?
I'm totally for the hybrid system. And it can't fail, unless you cut financing - in which case it'll turn into what America has now.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:25 AM
 
35,317 posts, read 46,935,769 times
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Cant speak for the other 35 million Canadians but in my 40+ years here i've never had a problem with the Canadian health care system,neither has anyone in my family, all our healthcare needs have been taken care of maybe not all as promptly as i'd like but reasonable wait times are to be expected,several operations on various family members were taken care of in an expedient and professional manner and other provinces do honor medicare cards from out of province as i've discovered on a few instances out of Quebec.
While we can debate the merits of American vs Canadian healthcare Canadas system has a few major advantages one being if you are a Canadian Citizen or permanent resident you got healthcare period.
If you lose your job here in Caqnada you still have health care, Getting denied healthcare due to Pre existing conditions is a term unheard of in Canada, caps,copays are also alien concepts.
And if you so chose you can also buy private insurance and avoid the government system all together the private insurance covers pharmaceuticals,glasses,dentures,and some operations that can be done in private clinics,you can still get all that through the Government plan but the private system you get more choices,perhaps a better quality frame for your glasses or you may get an operation in 5 minutes instead of waiting a few days.
Thats my experience and i've never heard a friend or colleague complain about the system,sure i guess people can cherry pick examples of things going wrong but you can do that with just about any health care system in the world.
Which one would i choose? the Canadian one as i feel more confident that it will be there when i need it..
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,986 posts, read 14,235,698 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Lastly; all Canadians maintain their basic universal provincial health care while travelling throughout the world but only for the parallel costs of that service were it provided in Canada. When travelling to the U.S most if not all Canadians are cautioned to "top-up" their insurance due to the absolutely ursurious costs of ANY medical service provided south of the 49th and that my friends is the same for any visitor to your country who desires to be indemnified from complete pennury (bankruptcy) through any unforeseen medical event.
You realize that Obamacare casts those usurious (your term) costs in bronze?
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:14 AM
 
21,673 posts, read 12,797,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
You realize that Obamacare casts those usurious (your term) costs in bronze?

Isn't that a totally separate debate from the O/P's "which is better" query? Or am I misreading?

The argument for or against the Obamacare is not about how to provide a universal system but to force compliance and should be on it's merits alone without all of this "socialistic" nonsense thrown in to the blender.

You folks need to decide firstly about the very nature of a universal health care program being desirable or not. Then decide the foundation of that sytem, user pay, single payer, employer deductions, tax based, Federal top-up whatever, but leave that silly "I don't want to pay for the lazy layabouts healthcare" stuff at the door where it belongs.

Here's an "opinion" from a foreigner's perspective:

You are every bit, and in some cases even moreso, as "socialist"; using your incorrect assessment of what "socialism" is, as any of those nations providing a universal health care sytem. The list of markers you would use to describe another nations "socialism" are all present within your country; cradle to grave multi-generational welfare, food stamps, cel-phone minutes for indigent mothers with multiple kiddies, bank bailouts, financial institutions bail outs, private industry bail outs, appointment of a government overseer (car CZAR ) to manage a segment of private industry, usage of taxpayer monies for any number of federally sponsored things from student loans (with foregivness) to farm grants to replace aging fence-lines and so on and so on. SO

The argument then becomes which of all of the "socialistic" markers or provisions should be the ones you select to define your country as the nation you wish to be. The one that will insulate all of your citizens from undue hardship imposed through an unforeseen medical event or all of that other "socialistic" stuff you're already providing, albeit with whining, but nevertheless they're there and irrrevocably entrenched.

You have been whipped into a frenzy by your two idiotic political parties into believing one thing or the other about any number of things, not for philosophical or moral reasons, as they would have you believe (because they all have the best health care plan available to mankind), but rather, to perpetuate their hold on your wallet to satisfy the medical and pharmaceutical community's damands.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:37 AM
 
4,255 posts, read 3,245,524 times
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If you are sick or poor Canadas is better. If you are healthy or wealthy ours is better.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:08 AM
 
9,369 posts, read 6,080,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You or your mom don't know what you are talking about....If you are eligible for coverage while temporarily absent from B.C. (see Temporary Absence from B.C.), MSP will help pay for unexpected medical services you receive anywhere in the world, provided the services are medically required, rendered by a licensed physician and normally insured by MSP. Reimbursement is made in Canadian funds and does not exceed the amount payable had the same services been performed in B.C. Any excess cost is the responsibility of the beneficiary. MSP - Leaving British Columbia
My neighbor's Mother doesn't live in BC and as you know coverage varys from province to province. And in her case, coverage is not available. She has a heart condition that no travel insurer will cover. And since it's a pre-existing condition, neither will OHIP except in Canada. If she leaves Canada and needs medical attention, it's all on her. And that keeps her from leaving the country.


In case you're interested in facts:

Travelling Outside Canada - Ontario Health Insurance (OHIP) - Publications - Public Information - MOHLTC
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:15 AM
 
4,423 posts, read 6,738,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An0nym0us88 View Post
Does Obama want to have healthcare like Canada?
Nope, he wants to have health care like Massachusetts which works just fine!
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:42 AM
 
612 posts, read 736,862 times
Reputation: 825
I can only speak of my personal experience.

Within an 18 month period I had my aunt, sister, and daughter all diagnosed with different forms of cancer. They varied from unlikely to be fatal to a very aggressive form of breast cancer. They all received prompt and excellent care. The doctor operating on my daughter patiently worked for hours to accomplish the necessary surgery with the least post-operative complications, even though we were prepared for a much more invasive procedure. Five to six years on all seems well with all three. Treatment was not financially onerous. Nearly all costs were covered by our existing medical system.


I also had two employees experience heart attacks. They were operated on within hours of their episodes and are back at work, probably healthier than they were before their attacks, since they are taking better care of themselves.


There are always things that need to be improved in any system, and I believe there is a will to address those things in Canada. I know that I would not personally wish to trade the Canadian for the US system.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:55 AM
 
21,673 posts, read 12,797,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
My neighbor's Mother doesn't live in BC and as you know coverage varys from province to province. And in her case, coverage is not available. She has a heart condition that no travel insurer will cover. And since it's a pre-existing condition, neither will OHIP except in Canada. If she leaves Canada and needs medical attention, it's all on her. And that keeps her from leaving the country.


In case you're interested in facts:

Travelling Outside Canada - Ontario Health Insurance (OHIP) - Publications - Public Information - MOHLTC

All known and worldwide universally comparable issues.

Is there a country that provides insurance for people with known pre-existing serious cardiac issues to travel anywhere outside the country with maintenance of home coverage? Nope!

Are there private insurance companies that will insure you with a pre-existing major cardiac conditon AND allow you to travel worldwide? Nope!

Is she currently covered for medical intervention while domiciled in Canada? Yep.
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