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Oleg, I am glad I don't live in Canada, where gay marriage is legal, wheere abortion is encouraged and religion is discouraged. A lot of liberals in America want us to become more like Canada and Europe, but in the end we are one nation UNDER GOD. That will not change.
Which God? America is a patchwork quilt of religious beliefs.
If you are speaking of the Christian God, are you speaking of the God professed by Billy Graham, or maybe the one called on by the Westboro Baptist Church? Those cannot be the same God, to give a quick example.
Or maybe you are talking about God as defined by the Jews, the Hindus, the Muslims, or the Wiccans.
For the record, I was raised Southern Baptist. I was taught as a child in the Methodist Church, before my family transferred, that Christianity is about one thing and one thing only, Love Thy Neighbor. I don't see a lot of that going on in the Christian community any more.
What I have witnessed this week is people wolfing down bad fast food to prove their love of Jesus and hatred of gay people. Fried chicken and milkshakes have become the new communion.
Deliver me from a state where God runs the show by proxy. That's Iran that you are talking about.
In The Name of The Most Merciful, The All Forgiving, God. HIS, Peace Be Upon You Everyone.
As a Christian, you might be interested in the following: 'God, having thus created man, put into him a light which is called reason, which was to unite the flesh, the sense, and the soul in a single end—to work for the service of God.
'Whereupon, he placing this work in paradise, and the reason being seduced of the sense by
the operation of Satan, the flesh lost its rest, the sense lost the delight whereby it liveth, and
the soul lost its beauty.
'Man having come to such a plight, the sense, which findeth not repose in labour, but
seeketh delight, not being curbed by reason, followeth the light which the eyes show it;
whence, the eyes not being able to see aught but vanity, it deceiveth itself, and so, choosing
earthly things, sinneth.
'Thus it is necessary that by the mercy of God man's reason be enlightened afresh, to know
good from evil and [to distinguish] the true delight: knowing which, the sinner is converted
to penitence. Wherefore I say unto you verily, that if God our Lord enlighten not the heart
of man, the reasonings of men are of no avail. Chapter 123 Gospel of Barnabas
Would it not be wise to choose the Guidance of The Wise God?
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd
The whole debate about whether gays should or should not be able to get married shouldn't be placed in the hands of people to vote. Before my Christian posters chew me out for making this claim, I agree with the biblical definition of marriage, which is between a man and a woman. But with that said, the United States of America, as many Christians want to blindly believe is not a Christian country. Nor is it a country where any one's religious opinions should be the law of the land when it violates a person's civil rights. The fact that gay people can't get married is a violation if their civil rights, and propositions should not be placed on ballots for people to vote for or against it when eventually people for or against it challenge that same proposition. Eventually the US Supreme Court will rule on gay marriage anyway, and no matter what I or anyone thinks about it, it will become the law of the land---ending this whole debate at least on the ballot.
What I'm unable to understand is, why would gays want to marry, if they in fact respect the institution of marriage? What exactly is to be accomplished by same sex marriage?
As far as MD goes that statement is incorrect. The pro-Marriage Equality Act proponents were genuinely surprised that it caused a referendum drive and that the petitioners were able to get as many signatures as they did (3 times the number, over 150000 and still counting).
No one was surprised. The required number of 113k signatures in Maryland is a trivially low threshold in a state with 5.8 million people. All you have to do is go back to the coverage from when it passed to see for yourself. The Washington Post, from the day after the Maryland Senate passed the same-sex marriage bill in September, long before a single signature had been gathered. Maryland Senate passes same-sex marriage bill - The Washington Post
Quote:
The likelihood that the issue could land on the November ballot in Maryland presents a potential dilemma for President Obama. He has been heavily courting the gay community for donations and votes in his reelection campaign but has stopped short of fully embracing marriage rights. Obama has said his views are “evolving,” a statement viewed by many supporters in that community as a strong hint that he will soon endorse the cause, perhaps if and when he is safely reelected.
Gay rights activists can be expected to pressure the president to publicly support the Maryland law in November.
Not only does the article refer to the fact that it is "likely" that the issue will end up on the ballot, the next paragraph presumes that there will be a campaign over the issue on the ballot.
KInda blows away the premesis of the whole thread then.
No, all it completely blows away is your false claim that same-sex marriage activists aren't trying to get referenda on the ballot which would strike down same-sex marriage laws.
No one was surprised. The required number of 113k signatures in Maryland is a trivially low threshold in a state with 5.8 million people. All you have to do is go back to the coverage from when it passed to see for yourself. The Washington Post, from the day after the Maryland Senate passed the same-sex marriage bill in September, long before a single signature had been gathered. Maryland Senate passes same-sex marriage bill - The Washington Post
Not only does the article refer to the fact that it is "likely" that the issue will end up on the ballot, the next paragraph presumes that there will be a campaign over the issue on the ballot.
I did "go back". What the leaders said in public was at odds with what was said in private.
The number for the ballot initiative was roughly 55000, not 113000. The number is not based on total poulation but on a percentage of total votes cast in the last General Election. For local referenda the number is 20% for Statewide rederenda it's 5%.
But what do I know, I only live in the state and am active in politics?
In The Name of The One God Almighty. Peace Be Upon You Everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald
In a word, "theocracy".
What can possibly be wrong, with a Divinely Guided State? A State (understand), that is responding to the Guidance of The Only God, Supreme! So, you are suggesting that you would dislike such a State government, where you live?
It makes no difference to me whether anyone thinks it's a civil right or carries significance based on their ancient book of fairy tales. Civil "marriage" is simply a business contract. Anyone who even thinks that it is more in the eyes of the law, is an idiot. Especially those who back up their assertions with some old crusty tome that has no legal significance in this country.
In the end, you are correct in that it will eventually be the law of the land here in the USA. At that time, the religious right will invent some other crisis of biblical proportions (no pun intended) so that it can swiftly launch a full throttle campaign to protect its members against that very same crisis.
You've described the current system. Your guru led performance art is what we call "religious marriage", and your legally binding civil union between two consenting adults is what we "civil marriage" (although in most places it's allowed only between consenting adults of opposite-sex for some reason).
So there you have it. Call it what it is... a Civil Union. If you include the performance art then call it a Civil Union with Performance Art.
And fix the law to make civil unions legal between ANY two consenting adults.
It's the idea of marriage - that Holy unto God - for same sex that offends Christians and believe it or not, NOBODY is going to change that. So clear the air. Get that Civil Union and if you do the theatrical stuff, just advertise the addition of performance art.
Equality for all.
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