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You are the one who insisted it was illegal. I have searched the relevant state statutes and US code and can say with confidence no such laws exist.
The burden of proof is now entirely yours... as it actually always was. But I am generous and did the research anyway.
Your turn.
I don't think it matters if it's legal or not, because it would have been impossible for him to do. Acceptance into an international student program (one that might possibly give him some kind of preference for admission) would require documentation that he would never be able to produce as an American kid growing up in the US. As I said, even with dual citizenship (which there is no evidence that's he's ever had) they would know he was an American citizenship as well, and they would know he'd grown up in the United States from his transcripts. You can't be a foreign exchange student in America, or admitted to an international student program here, if you're an American.
Historian Dude is wrong on this one. If I understand correctly, you all are trying to claim that Obama got some type of special preference for admission to college because he enrolled as a foreign exchange student. As I said earlier, I've been a foreign exchange student. In order to be accepted into a program like that, you have to submit tons of documentation. The school has to work with you to apply for a visa to allow you to stay in the country to attend school--the state department needs proof that you're there as a student to give you a longer term student visa vs. a tourist visa. Even with the remote possibility that Obama held dual citizenship and he tried to apply to college here as a foreign national, the state department would have records of his US citizenship and would have denied it. If nothing else, a foreign passport would still list his place of birth as Hawaii (that's where his birth certificate is from) plus his mother's nationality (US citizen). Both automatically make him a US citizen, plus his school transcripts would have all been from American schools, showing his residency here. The visa would have never been issued, and the school would have known that he was a US citizen as well.
Bottom line--what some of you whackos are claiming isn't even possible.
How is Historian Dude wrong? He simply stated that even if Obama did pull one over on Occidental and Columbia and tricked them into believing he was a foreign student (which H.D. clearly stated he does not believe happened), he would not have been violating the law.
It's pretty simple. If you (and by "you" I mean anyone) believe it would be an illegal act, then simply quote the law such an act violates. And I'm not saying I agree with H.D., but up to now nobody has offered any evidence to refute what he claimed.
What makes you think he even has dual citizenship?
First and foremost, I do not. But that point is not even in one of the first three or so levels of analysis necessary to prove this entire thread is nothing more than recurrent right-wing nut-jobbery.
Obama was certainly born a dual citizen (as are tens of millions of other natural born US citizens, yours truly included). But under the relevant foreign laws he lost his UK citizenship when Kenya achieved independence in 1964, and his Kenyan citizenship expired on his birthday in 1984.
Birthers often try to claim for him Indonesian citizenship... but under Indonesia law he never could have qualified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547
You can't apply as a foreign exchange student, and participate in an international student program in America if you're already an American. He would never have had a student visa to show the school (that IS required to be in an international program) because American citizens don't need a visa to study here. Let's say that he did have dual citizenship--the state department would have those records, and they would have denied his visa application because he doesn't need one.
Well... first off you need to back up a little.
The term "foreign exchange student" is primary applied to high school students, not college students. Such programs are extremely rigid (as you describe) but are not relevant to attendance at an institution of higher learning. The acceptance of foreign students into those institutions are (with the exception of short term "study abroad" or "semester abroad" programs) not "exchange" programs at all. They are not "international programs." They are at their core the same exact process of admissions as domestic students... students apply and either do or do not get in. A specific "student" visa is not a requirement, though that is certainly the visa program of which most foreign students take advantage. But foreigners can also live in the US under any number of other visa programs or as holders of a green card and still attend college. For example, a foreigner here on a work visa can attend college while present in the country, no problem. And of course dual citizens can attend college here without any visa at all.
Further more, it is impossible to actually figure out what program the Birthers are hallucinating of which Obama would have been taking advantage. Few US schools have any quotas associated with foreign students, though most like to take them because they actually tend to pay the highest possible (i.e. non-resident) tuition rather than receive some imaginary special scholarships for foreigners from the schools. Fulbright scholarships are only granted for graduate work, which Obama was not at either Occidental or Columbia. There are few if any financial advantages of being a foreign student in a US university.
But at the college/university level the requirements for participation in any program is determined by the institution, not the government. There is no law that sets standards beyond simple legal residence. So Birther claims that he did something illegal or committed fraud are absurd on their face... even were it true that he attended as a foreign student for some inexplicable reason.
You read the title right. Obama's college classmate is saying Obama went to Columbia as a foreign student and that is why he isn't releasing his grades to anyone. I believe this to be true. He is advising team Romney to put Obama on the defensive and make him release his college admissions as Donald Trump and talk show host have been suggesting to Romney. I believe this will happen soon.
Actually, Trump's tweet was a parody on Reid's ridiculousness.
What would lead you to imagine for a second I hadn't figured it out? The fact that I ignored the parody and used it as another opportunity to dis The Donald?
Obama was born a Brit. Even the DNC admitted such in the 2008 campaign...
Quote:
When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire.As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children."
You read the title right. Obama's college classmate is saying Obama went to Columbia as a foreign student and that is why he isn't releasing his grades to anyone. I believe this to be true. He is advising team Romney to put Obama on the defensive and make him release his college admissions as Donald Trump and talk show host have been suggesting to Romney. I believe this will happen soon.
How is Historian Dude wrong? He simply stated that even if Obama did pull one over on Occidental and Columbia and tricked them into believing he was a foreign student (which H.D. clearly stated he does not believe happened), he would not have been violating the law.
It's pretty simple. If you (and by "you" I mean anyone) believe it would be an illegal act, then simply quote the law such an act violates. And I'm not saying I agree with H.D., but up to now nobody has offered any evidence to refute what he claimed.
What I'm saying is that there's no point in even entertaining the idea, because it would have been impossible for him to be accepted as a foreign student, whether it's "against the law" or not.
You all are making the case that you think Obama used a Kenyan passport to get into a better college as a foreign student than he would have qualified for as an American kid. Any type of program that would provide preferred admission and support services for foreign students is going to be pretty hands on with that student's academic career. You have to be accepted into it, they provide documentation to the state department to help you get a student visa, etc. There's no way that he could hide the fact that he's an American from either the school or the state department. It's not possible. I can't speak for every school, but the other issue is grades--I've never heard of a college that let kids in from other countries with LOWER grades than the American students. It's a challenge to study in a foreign country, and every program I've ever seen has tougher requirements for international students vs. Americans. They want the best and the brightest from overseas--not kids who are going to crash and burn here.
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