Let's Raise The Minimum Wage to $115,000 per Year And Reduce Week To 20 Hours (party, county)

[FairnessIsGlorious]

Originally Posted by Iamme73

This is a terrible idea. Inflation would be bonkers and our money would be worthless. It would take like $20,000 to buy groceries or something.

All we are doing is re-allocating EXISTING income. We are not increasing the total amount of income that is getting paid out. So it does not cause inflation.

If all we did was increase the minimum wage to $115k, and kept everyone else's income the same, that would cause inflation. But that is not what we are doing. We are also lowering the top pay from hundreds of millions and billions of dollars to just $460k. The amount we are reducing the top pay is exactly equal to the amount we are increasing the minimum pay. The net result is no increase in price on average. This is math 101.

If you have a $14.5 trillion economy and you only pay out $14.5 trillion in income, it is mathematically impossible to have inflation. How is the economy going to inflate beyond the $14.5 trillion if only $14.5 trillion is being spent? It can't. It is impossible.

You can see the calculation in paying out those incomes here:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/25524742-post28.html

[Vinsanity]

Originally Posted by FairnessIsGlorious

We produce $15.4 trillion in goods and services every year.

That is just under $50,000 per year for every man, woman and child. That is $200,000 per year for a family of 4. That is $65 per hour for each hour every worker works. That is $135,000 per year for every full-time worker.

No matter how you slice it, that is clearly enough income to make everyone in this country wealthy.

The only reason why we have poverty in our country is because a ruling class takes the vast majority of the income workers produce.

You also seem to have no grasp of the concept of capital investments. Without capital investment, there is no business in place to employ workers.

[skeeter31]

I'm still waiting for responses to my questions from a few pages back.

[FairnessIsGlorious]

Originally Posted by faabala

Who would build a house or buy a house if there were no property rights?

All us slaves would just have to live in our Government issued identical apartment blocks. Why should a Doctor have better living quarters than a ditch digger?

Your comment would be much more valuable if you critiqued what I advocate. I don't advocate anything you wrote.

You have property rights, you are not a slave, you can buy whatever house you want, the govt doesn't issue anyone a house and a doctor will likely have better living quarters because she makes more money since she does a job that is more difficult.

Here is a quick overview of what I advocate:

Our current market economic system is corrupt and should be replaced with a fair market system.

A fair market system is a system where:

1) 100% of the total income produced in the economy is paid to workers since they are responsible for 100% of the total production.

We must put an end to paying out HALF our income to people who don't work and just collect unearned income like rent, interest and profit because, as I will demonstrate, we don't need to pay these incomes, any more than we need to pay people an income to print their own money, in order to get our market economy to work and because the capital we are paying this unearned income on was produced with stolen resources.

2) And we must allocate that total income based on how hard you work, instead of based on how much exploitation you can get away with, since the whole purpose of income is to be an incentive to work and work hard. So differences in income will be based only on what is necessary to get workers to do mentally or physically difficult work and to get them to give their maximum effort in performance based jobs since this is the only legitimate economic justification for paying one worker more than another.

Paying 100% of our income to workers and paying them based on how hard they work is the only fair market system.

If we did this, it would enable us to:

* Raise the minimum wage to $115,000 per year (1)
* Raise the minimum wage to $230,000 per year for people who work mentally or physically difficult jobs (science, construction, mining, farming) (1)
* Cut the work week to 20 hours (2)
* Guarantee everyone a job
* Eliminate interest which would cut your mortgage in half (3)
* Guarantee 100% financing to everyone who wants to own a home without the need for a down payment (3)
* Pay students an income to go to school
* Guarantee everyone a pension at retirement
* Make everyone wealthy
* And when you make everyone wealthy, you eliminate nearly every social problem we have

Our current market economy is corrupt because it unfairly concentrates income in the hands of a small ruling class through institutionalized theft, government welfare, and institutionalized exploitation.

It allows this ruling class to unfairly siphon off the great majority of the income our workers produce, leaving the vast, overwhelming majority of hard-working Americans broke. It is criminal.

And this ruling class uses their vastly superior wealth and resulting vastly superior power to maximize the corruption and entrench their ability to illegitimately and undemocratically rule over society.

In order to end the corruption, and to make our market economy fair, we must put an end to the welfare, theft and exploitation.

[jetgraphics]

Imagine you awaken in a world where everyone is credited with 66 billion quatloos - a substantial sum - in their bank accounts. As a newly enriched multi-billionaire, one might kick back and plan to have fun, order some take out, go to a theater and watch a play. However, since everyone else is super “rich” no one bothers to go to work, to make food, perform in theaters, and thus the civilization collapses.

[Sgt. Buzzcut]

The trouble is a certain percentage of the 115K crowd are going to blow through their money, probably even to the extent they'll be unfit for work while many others will put away some of the pay for a rainy day and then we're right back to where we started again...unequal wealth.

[swagger]

Originally Posted by skeeter31

Thus, they go out of business and ALL those $115K employees are out of a job. Explain that!!

Not to worry - they're all GUARANTEED new jobs! Don't you see the beauty in his plan? Everything's GUARANTEED! It's a true economic utopia!

[FairnessIsGlorious]

Originally Posted by hnsq

Your math is flat out wrong...you are using GDI, not wages. Good god...GDI is not what a person is paid...

GDI is total income paid to everyone. Wages are just one type of the income that gets paid. We also pay out rent, interest and profit.

So average income is total income (not total wages) divided by total hours worked.

My god, I am so sorry for asking that people take responsibility for themselves. What was I thinking? Let's pawn responsibility for our own lives off onto the government so that we can sit in circles and bang drums instead of actually working for something.

I believe people should take care of themselves. I don't believe government should take care of you. All I am saying is we should be paying 100% of our income to workers, since they do 100% of the work, and we should be paying them based on how hard they work. That's fair. And you will likely do 4 times better in that system.

So the person who wants to work 20 hours should be paid the same as the person who busts their a** to get a better salary? How again are you not simply advocating laziness?

No. The person who works 20 hours should get paid at least $115k. And the people who work more or do more difficult work should get paid more.


[quote]...So basically you are saying you have not thought at all what would happen to your society five years after you enact the policies put into place? Please explain what course of action we would undergo if your policies were put in place five, ten, fifteen years out. [quote]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

We should pay 100% of our income to workers and we should allocate it based on how hard they work. We should continue to do the same thing after 5 years.

What motivation would you give people to spend 15 years studying to become a surgeon?

People who enjoy science and medicine and want to get paid the highest income would become surgeons.

[FairnessIsGlorious]

Originally Posted by carterstamp

Works for me.

Try less words and more links.

Unfortunately, my original post was deleted and my account was banned for spam because I included links.

You can read another post that I wrote that has links to all the claims here:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/1-replace-capitalism-with-democracy/

[swagger]

Originally Posted by FairnessIsGlorious

No matter how you slice it, that is clearly enough income to make everyone in this country wealthy.

Sigh.

I'm going to keep repeating it until it sinks in.

WEALTH IS RELATIVE.

If everyone has approximately the same number of dollars (or coconuts, borrowing from an earlier example), then nobody is wealthy.

Answer these two YES OR NO questions.

1. Are you wealthy compared to Bill Gates?

2. Are you wealthy compared to a homeless person that begs for beer money?

Are you starting to get it now? If everyone had Gates' money, then NOBODY would be wealthy. We would all have exactly the same purchasing power. Your idea that "everyone can be wealthy" is literally impossible. How you can even THINK it's possible is absolutely mind numbing. You don't seem stupid, but something has to be broken up there for you to not be able to accept even the most basic impossibilities of your system.